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Thread: Bad NASTAR Resorts

  1. #21
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    Today, light jazz (aka: modern elevator). Nothing like charging the course to Kenny G!! :? Woohoo! zzzzz----

    oh, and the pacesetter's 33 handicap. that was fun too. :cry:

    Still, at least it's open and running here at Park City everyday.

  2. #22
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
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    NASTAR Results from PCMR for Mon, 1/30/06

    Originally posted by sam
    Today, light jazz (aka: modern elevator). Nothing like charging the course to Kenny G!!  :?   Woohoo!     zzzzz----

    oh, and the pacesetter's 33 handicap. that was fun too.  :cry:  

    Still, at least it's open and running here at Park City everyday.
    Did a little fact finding on the Results from yesterday's PCMR NASTAR based on sam's comments about the 33 handicap pacesetter

    http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=r...lts=Y&year=2006

    Total Racers - 40 (6 female; 34 male)
    Total runs - 125
    Total Platinum medals awarded - 0 (0%)
    Total Gold Medals Awarded - 1 (2.5% - and this was to a 4 year old male with a 78 handicap)
    Total Silver Medals Awarded - 10 (25%)
    Total Bronze Medals Awarded -16 (40%)

    Total Platinum Runs - 0
    Total Gold Medal Runs - 1
    Total Silver medal runs - 20 (and 14 of these were from 4 racers - 1 woman)
    Total Bronze medal runs - 41

    Some Observations:

    a. The par times (13.11 sec and 13.39 sec) border on the absurd. My guess is that Daron Rahlves tucking straight from the start to the finish (No gates - i.e.- cap time) couldn't match these par times.

    b. There were some very good racers racing this course, yet the only gold medal was won by a 4 year old with a 78 handicap ( and not to mention the fact that there were no platinum medals awarded)

    c. In spite of this, the silver and bronze medals awarded were right in line with the NASTAR norms.

    d. For the more serious racer, NASTAR gold and platinum medals are getting increasingly difficult to come by. This is based on observations not just of these results, but from looking at many results from many resorts. With increasingly higher handicap pacesetters, who ski their home hill on a regular basis, golds and silvers become discouragingly scarce.

    e. My guess is that the Gold and Platinum classes at the Nationals this year will be very small.

    JMHO

  3. #23
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    Is this Park City's way of getting even for losing the Nationals? Or didn't they want them again? :shock: :? just a thought.. seems strange, of all places to have such wild HC swings.
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  4. #24
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    Some Kid Got Mine

    Yeah, my result from the 29th at PCMR wasn't even posted, it was given to some little kid who has a bunch of slow times and one out-of-character fast time. I'm not even gonna complain, no one is doing anything to fix it, so why waste the breath?
    On the other hand, a really caring volunteer named, I believe, Chip, is working hard to at least keep the course slipped. He even used his own break time to slip it; and the PCMR NASTAR crew is now asking ski instructors to slip it when they show up with their large classes, so at least there is a little light in the darkness.
    Still....one can only wonder what's happening---and why it is being allowed to happen.
    play hockey for great racing cross training

  5. #25
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    Well, obviously someone high up is seemingly sabotaging the program. The volunteers listen and say
    If I complain to my boss I just get yelled at. You gotta go talk to the race dept. But they can be pretty tough.
    If it smells like a rat and it looks like a rat and it sounds like a rat..

    I doubt that a collective complaining or even reasoning will do any good. It's apparently an operative decision, one which we are not privy to.

    We've all seen and felt this kind of thing before. The only thing to do we might do is fight fire with fire.

    1.) A legal stand? - Do we have rights as passholders who are entitled to a cleanly run NASTAR program, since NASTAR is purchased and therefore protected under consumer fraud laws?

    2.) The safety issue - If people are admittedly hurting themselves and or putting themselves at UNREASONABLE risk ("shinning and knocking down gates" and who knows what else) in an effort to get a fair and reasonable score due to the absurdly and *admittedly inaccurate pacesetter handicaps, that puts PCMR under considerably more liability risk and fiscal responsibility if someone gets seriously hurt. Sure, they'll have their reason to kill the NASTAR program if that happens, but they stand to potentially pay out millions in some kind of settlement. This not only puts someone out of a job if it happens, but the fact alone makes the person in charge irresponsible to hisher fiduciary duty to the company. If someone higher up gets wind of this, they'd have grounds to fire that high ranking employee. Regardless, money speaks to those at the REAL helm. They need to be located and made aware. (PCMR's legal team shouldn't be hard to find.)

    *The pacesetter Joel told me himself he knew that his handicap of 33 was horribly wrong but that when he had tried to change it to make it accurate his boss yelled at him and made him change it back to 33.

    3.) Don't we have, uh, a member of the press amongst our ranks? Hellooooooo. Sure, it may be a small story, not worthy of national coverage, but a crafty reporter could use the Olympics, Daron Rhalves, Home of the US Ski Team, and 'the resort that lost the national's is bitter' angles to spin something that may get picked up around Olympic time when papers are hungry for anything sporty and ski-y. I mean, heck, I saw Olympian medalist Picabo race the course in around 16, and here we have amateurs killing themselves to pull an impossible 13.7? A nice color photo of Daron pacesetting...a couple quotes from local Olympians.. Maybe S.I. mag runs a small piece on it. Controversy..it sells. Plus, with all the money Park City is spending on marketing itself right now, they don't want negative press. Maybe those behind the millions they're spending on marketing get wind of the story and have a little talk with PCMR to fix it so that there is no negative story. In fact, what a great little positive story it becomes! Something like:
    America's amateurs go to Torino with Rhalves.
         Don't be suprised if your lawn-mowing neighbor comes back with a                         gold medal from Torino. Or at least the equivalent of one. Headquarted in Park City Utah, blah blah, NASTAR, blah, handicap system, blah, pacesetter and America's top hope for a downhill gold medal Daron Rhalves, blah blah..
    4.) Any effective movement for change needs a leader, a spearhead. Nobody probably wants to step into the role, but someone needs to do so asap.


    g'night.

    ps. seriously, i just can't ski fast to Enya. I stand firm on the music issue. :cry:

  6. #26
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    I would freakin do it if it were my home resort. no doubt...

    On the other hand the reprocussion could likely be that you won't see Nastar anymore there. That is too much a pain in the @$$ to deal with....
    Sign in at www.paskiandride.com for info on Pennsylvania Ski Areas

  7. #27
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Re: Its way more absurd than you know

    Originally posted by backtomasters
    Some Observations:  

    a. The par times (13.11 sec and 13.39 sec) border on the absurd. My guess is that Daron Rahlves tucking straight from the start to the finish (No gates - i.e.- cap time) couldn't match these par times.  

    b. There were some very good racers racing this course, yet the only gold medal was won by a 4 year old with a 78 handicap ( and not to mention the fact that there were no platinum medals awarded)  

    c. In spite of this, the silver and bronze medals awarded were right in line with the NASTAR norms.  

    d. For the more serious racer, NASTAR gold and platinum medals are getting increasingly difficult to come by. This is based on observations not just of these results, but from looking at many results from many resorts. With increasingly higher handicap pacesetters, who ski their home hill on a regular basis, golds and silvers become discouragingly scarce.  

    e. My guess is that the Gold and Platinum classes at the Nationals this year will be very small.  

    JMHO
    Okay, here's what you don't know just to put it in perspective about how ABSURD it is (btw, I set the "Cap Time" on the hill last year on my SuperG boards, 209's, in a downhill suit, straight down the middle, 14.2 seconds. Yeah, I'm sure Daron would go a bit faster but how much faster in that short a distance?).

    Yesterday I ran a 16.07 in the Green and a 15.94 in the Yellow. I had a TWENTY FREAKING HANDICAP IN THE GREEN!!!!

    Yes, Bill knows about this and as a matter of fact I have a little excel spread sheet that I use to work back the pacesetters HC off of me


    Date
    1/30/2006
    Green Course
    Gary Dranow (5 handicap)

    Time / Par Time /Joel Leisure/ Handicap (Calculated) Current Handicap
    16.07/ 15.30/ 17.44/ 1.139514624/ 14.0/ 33


    1/30/2006
    Yellow Course
    Gary Dranow (5 handicap)

    Time Par Time Joel Leisure
    15.94/ 15.18/ 17.82/ 1.173839398/ 17.4/ 33

    Avg, 2 Runs > 15.7/ 33

    How's that for being out in left field. Yes, I admit it, I told them to DSQ me BEFORE I ran and why I was running as I knew from the PAR TIMES how absurd the pacesetting was.

    TODAY

    They had paceset in the morning and based on the conditions (soft snow) had actually put up some fair par times, for once. You see, the pacesetters are all getting faster as the season goes. The pacesetter‚Δτs know this. They ARE NOT TO BLAME as they are being told what to do by someone else. THEY ARE TRYING TO KEEP ME AT ABOUT A 10 HANDICAP for my first run, which is kinda OK but not truly accurate as I will run pretty close (5 or better) against any US Teamer on that hill (Damn, I couldn't get Schlope to go over a run a few with me, but of course, had he pulled a 15 HC on the day your reference above, and HE WOULD HAVE, not good for anybody. Soooo, good thing he did not come out.).

    Anyway back to my rant;

    Today, I came back up after changing skis for the set. The second gate was way the heck off in the boonies and there was no way I was going to get my 184's around the gate, I switched to my 181's (and still had to shin it, OUCH!!). Anyway, they had a timing problem the first time I was up and when I came around about 45 Minutes later, WHAM, new par times and WAY LOWER. I knew right there, oh boy, here we go again. I talked to the poor guys until I was blue in the face that they should run with the original times as that would "fix" the race and everyone would have the right HC's for the day. The argument back was that I should run as a 10 and I would be down in the 6's (Imagine that, ME, who ran a 7 off of Rahlves at the Nationals in a one run drag race pulling a 6 on this stinking little PUTT-PUTT hill - NO WAY, MAN! I couldn't do that - IN MY FREAKING SLEEP AND RUNNING ON TWIN TIPS BACKWARDS I COULD DO THAT)

    Anyway, back to my rant;

    So I knew I was going to be way out so I said to myself, ok, what the heck, let's see what I can do if I KNOCK EVERY G.D. (those ARE NOT MY INTITIALS, get my meaning?) GATE OUT FO THE STINKING SNOW.

    I am black and blue, I shinned, YES SHINNED, half the gates in the course (apparently it was quite the spectacle and yes it was the fastest line) and could only pull a

    17.11 time for a 12 HC on GREEN (note, edit, it wasn't till after I wrote this did I see the results from today to discover 3 of my times where given to a snowboarder, posted below, FYI's).

    17.31 for a 14 HC on Yellow.

    Well if that's the way its going to be this year, so be it. We are just dogging the good racers, keeping us from being competitive in the National Overall with fair HC's and will all be called Sandbaggers at the Nationals if god forbid any of us do any good (like podium in a class). Heck, today I couldn't even pull a platinum, first time all season, I pulled a platinum against Fiala while I was dressed like the Michelin Man and he was in a speed suit and I had freaking pneumonia. So we will be sending Silver class people that should race in the Gold Division and Gold Division people that should be in the Platinum class. Hopefully a lot of our better racers won't go this year (and I say this with a heavy heart) as I know there will be fall out if this isn't fixed before February 20th.

    End of my RANT, I'm sick of it :x

    Edit; Oh yeah, I don't give a damn about the music :P


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  8. #28
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    Wish I had known about the (mystery?) 10 HC guy today- I wouldv'e braved the incredible snowdump we're getting!!! :D :D :D It's late, but I'm headed out for a couple turns in the powder with my fatties.

    See you @ Ms. Blanche tomorrow.




    btw GD, razz away! :wink:

  9. #29
    RacerX said "For the more serious racer, NASTAR gold and platinum medals are getting increasingly difficult to come by. This is based on observations not just of these results, but from looking at many results from many resorts. With increasingly higher handicap pacesetters, who ski their home hill on a regular basis, golds and silvers become discouragingly scarce."

    We just skied a nastar course with 3 USSA racers who had recently won high quality races. The results were 1 silver, 2 bronze. Whether the system is more accurate or not I could not say. I do believe it discourages increased participation.

  10. #30
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
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    Originally posted by skidad
    RacerX said   \"For the more serious racer, NASTAR gold and platinum medals are getting increasingly difficult to come by. This is based on observations not just of these results, but from looking at many results from many resorts. With increasingly higher handicap pacesetters, who ski their home hill on a regular basis, golds and silvers become discouragingly scarce.\"  

    We just skied a nastar course with 3 USSA racers who had recently won high quality races.  The results were 1 silver, 2 bronze.  Whether the system is more accurate or not I could not say.  I do believe it discourages increased participation.
    Anyone have any suggestions for correcting this anomoly in the matrix?

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