+ Reply to Thread
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5 ... LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 61

Thread: Pacesetters handicaps

  1. #21
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13
    Jerking the paying customers around on a yearly basis is really bad business.
    If I cannot compare my handicaps from year to year on the same hill with the same pacesetter why do I need a handicap system at all?
    All this talk of "true" handicaps, seperation, etc. just points out that the NASTAR system really doesn't work to allow comparisons between resorts that have courses set on hills with differing grades.
    NASTAR is a business and telling a customer that they are Platinum at this resort and Gold at that resort or that I'm going to have a much different handicap this year compared to last year is the best way to discourage customers I can think of.
    Very few people will put up with a product that has poor quality control.
    So far, it looks like the number of local racers at Nubs is down significantly now that the word is out that everybodys handicap will go up 4-6.
    It will be interesting to see if people vote with their feet on this one.
    I'm watching one 8 year old who ran mid 30's last year and is now in the high 40's and not very happy with the arbitrary changes.
    Anyone on this board want to try explaining how all this is fair to an 8 year old?
    Last edited by NubsGuy; 12-29-2012 at 01:05 PM.

  2. #22
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2003
    Location
    Marquette, MI
    Posts
    1,997
    There's the Dakine we all know and love!
    OREDOCK BREWING COMPANY SKI BUMS
    http://ore-dock.com/

  3. #23
    Senior Member chuckp7600's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Victoria, MN
    Posts
    730
    Quote Originally Posted by NubsGuy View Post
    Jerking the paying customers around on a yearly basis is really bad business.
    If I cannot compare my handicaps from year to year on the same hill with the same pacesetter why do I need a handicap system at all?
    All this talk of "true" handicaps, seperation, etc. just points out that the NASTAR system really doesn't work to allow comparisons between resorts that have courses set on hills with differing grades.
    NASTAR is a business and telling a customer that they are Platinum at this resort and Gold at that resort or that I'm going to have a much different handicap this year compared to last year is the best way to discourage customers I can think of.
    Very few people will put up with a product that has poor quality control.
    So far, it looks like the number of local racers at Nubs is down significantly now that the word is out that everybodys handicap will go up 4-6.
    It will be interesting to see if people vote with their feet on this one.
    I'm watching one 8 year old who ran mid 30's last year and is now in the high 40's and not very happy with the arbitrary changes.
    Anyone on this board want to try explaining how all this is fair to an 8 year old?
    Simple answer is to tell the 8 year old to concentrate on beating friends and parents rather than worrying about a number.

  4. #24
    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gaylord,Mi.
    Posts
    377
    The words I love to hear NubsGuy. I have always told everyone including the kids that the way you gage your skiing is by your handicap. If your handicap gets lower then you have improved. If the handicaps bounce all over from year to year how do you know if you improve. Everytime I bring up ways to improve the system everyone disagrees with me and thinks that the system is fine and does not need improving. Nothing is perfect and there is always room to improve . Is everyone so afraid of change. Better tell Apple not to improve their phones because they work fine and there is nothing that needs improving.

  5. #25
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Elba Island, MI
    Posts
    1,223
    Hey, I'd just like to race - so far, the only areas in lower Michigan that have even run NASTAR at all are Nubs, Schuss, and the Highlands.

    Unless you live up north, or want to make a five hour drive and then pay for over priced hotel rooms, you haven't even gotten the chance to race nastar so far this season! That stinks!

    Forget the whining about handicaps - I'd just like to have the chance to do some racing!!!

    Besides, the only way to really compare yourself is to race against each other at nationals - unless you've been to nationals and had your handicap vetted there, you really have no argument about your handicap, and where your ranking stands.

    Another thought:

    If racers at Nubs are not coming out this year because of fear their handicaps are going to be higher, it seems that says more about Nubs than it does about NASTAR - does that mean racers were only going to Nubs because they knew/know they could get a low handicap there????

    Seems a certain SE Lower MI area got lambasted on this forum a couple of years ago for exactly that reason.

    Dunno......

    JMHO
    Last edited by Racer X; 12-30-2012 at 01:34 AM. Reason: Ipad formatting
    If you win, but in so doing, lose the respect of your competitors, you've not won anything at all - Paul Elvestrom - 4 time Danish Olympic gold medalist in Sailing

  6. #26
    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Gaylord,Mi.
    Posts
    377
    Wow Matt it sounds like you are complaining. Maybe you should have taken a week off over the holiday to train and race here in Michigan. Nubs has a great race camp for the week . We train on Scarface at 7:00 am for GS every morning. There is training all day long for GS and Slalom. You can also race NASTAR and take a brake from the race camp as there are three sessions each day. You could have done a week of training and racing for far less than your training camp. I am sure you received some top notch instruction but the instructors at Nubs also do a fantastic job.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Elba Island, MI
    Posts
    1,223
    I agree! Believe me, I would have loved to! I enjoy the process of training and improving, and take every chance i can to take advantage of training opportunities.

    I've done the nubs camp, and it is top notch! However, with all the kids in town for the holidays from their new homes all across the country (Seattle to Chicago) family time and events precluded taking the time off during the holiday for a race camp of any length, much less an entire week.

    As the three kids have grown up and moved away, taking advantage of spending time with them when we get the chance is much more important than skiing, race training, or even doing NASTAR, for that matter.

    I asume you're referring to the Tremblant camp - it came at the right time, with the right training partners, with the right training staff, at the right venue (drivable), and at the right price - so it was do-able. The camp at Christmas time at nubs was/is none of these, so therefore was not (do-able).

    Nuff said.
    Last edited by Racer X; 12-30-2012 at 12:08 PM.
    If you win, but in so doing, lose the respect of your competitors, you've not won anything at all - Paul Elvestrom - 4 time Danish Olympic gold medalist in Sailing

  8. #28
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Chicago, Illinois
    Posts
    851
    Just got back from four days of Nastar racing and skiing at Chestnut Mountain and my legs feel like ground beef. The snow is great in northwest Illinois. I am not in the best shape this year and have hit the 55-59 age group (groan) and was the oldest woman out there....but I guess age is just a state of mind....really?

    Nastar racing was tons of fun and we have a new young pacesetter at Chestnut who did really well at the pacesetter trials at Spirit, particularly in slalom where he got a 2 handicap. We had four great days of racing and with the Midwest Championships I think I have a good gauge of where I am. I feel the handicaps are the most accurate they have been at Chestnut in a few years because of the new pacesetter (he is super fast), although he is not the only pacesetter there.

    My handicaps are higher this year but I am holding my own in the silver division which is where I belong. Next Nastar is at the Marquette UP Open, we have Chicago Shakespeare Theater tickets this weekend so we will be staying in town and I will be resting my legs!

    CTC
    Last edited by ChiTownChick; 01-01-2013 at 07:11 PM.

  9. #29
    Senior Member DMac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Main Line, PA
    Posts
    190
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckp7600 View Post
    Simple answer is to tell the 8 year old to concentrate on beating friends and parents rather than worrying about a number.
    Chuck is right, the numbers will always change. What matters is making sure you are always working to get better.

    Something everyone should remember is this year's handicap is the most accurate they have ever been. With Ted setting the 0 handicap, the handicaps could not be more accurate. So how about everyone save their hot air, you're melting the snow.
    Head World Cup i.Speed SW SP13 175 cm
    Head Free Flex Pro 14
    Head Raptor 130 RS
    Leki World Cup GS Trigger S

  10. #30
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Posts
    13
    Noticed yesterday that Nubs may be trying to repace Phil.
    http://skiracing.nastar.com/index.js...7935&year=2013
    Dave McVicker was the pacesetter using his 9.48 handicap.
    Phil ran 5 times in his suit....
    12.40
    14.93
    8.37
    10.87
    10.23
    Phil's handicaps from the Boyne pacesetter trials are 15.08 suit and 16.16 coat.
    He has been pacesetting in his coat which has put everybody's handicaps up 5 or 6 from the past two years.
    Eric S. turned in a 8.37 against McV too, congrats Eric.
    So, what should NASTAR do?
    Both Eric and Phil can beat David on Birch Run.
    But David is a Pro and will get his 9ish handicap on any course he tries.
    From a business viewpoint, it looks like the turnout at Nubs is down even with the best snow in years.
    I'm out till February for medical reasons so I don't really care.
    I do find the annual handicap drama to be discouraging and just bought the first pair of non race skis I have purchased in years (Kastle RX).
    I just can't get serious about NASTAR when the handicaps seem a bit arbitrary (like no explanation for why AJ is a 1.98 when he ran a 3.60 best against Ted).

    Just one more point..
    "Something everyone should remember is this year's handicap is the most accurate they have ever been. With Ted setting the 0 handicap, the handicaps could not be more accurate. So how about everyone save their hot air, you're melting the snow. "
    Talk about a thread killer.
    This is a discussion forum.
    Things get discussed on a discussion forum.
    NASTAR is far from perfect and failing business wise.
    Why shouldn't the paying coutomers talk about it?

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts