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Thread: Pacesetters handicaps

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    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
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    Pacesetters handicaps

    Well the pacesetter trials are done at Boyne Highlands. I have to voice my opinion once again even though it usually falls on deaf ears. I know there are people that are very consistant year after year such as J. Close but there are also people like my pacesetter Phil Reece. He jumps up and down every year. He usually never does good at the opening race. Then he must try to re-set his handicap so it is fair. This could once again be eliminated if they would average the handicaps. This would not affect Jamie but would help people like Phil. We go through this discussion every year about pacesetters handicaps. There is a problem and it needs to be fixed!!! Or do more resorts stop dropping NASTAR in favor of there own program.

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    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Banana View Post
    Well the pacesetter trials are done at Boyne Highlands. I have to voice my opinion once again even though it usually falls on deaf ears. I know there are people that are very consistant year after year such as J. Close but there are also people like my pacesetter Phil Reece. He jumps up and down every year. He usually never does good at the opening race. Then he must try to re-set his handicap so it is fair. This could once again be eliminated if they would average the handicaps. This would not affect Jamie but would help people like Phil. We go through this discussion every year about pacesetters handicaps. There is a problem and it needs to be fixed!!! Or do more resorts stop dropping NASTAR in favor of there own program.
    Dunno - here are Phil Reese's Suit Results from the last four years at pacesetting trials:

    2009-10 - 9.15 On Buck at Crystal Mt.
    2010-11 - 5.39 On Cheers at Crystal Mt.
    2011-12 - 17.81 On North McLouth at Boyne Mt.
    2012-13 - 15.08 On Challenger At Boyne Highlands

    If you throw out the 2010-11 results on the flat Cheers course at Crystal as being an anomaly, since almost everyone there was a single digit, his three year average is 14.01. So considering that with Ligety being the pacesetter this year and the attendant handicaps being higher for everyone (look at the results if you want to see what I mean), there would only be a 1 point handicap difference between what he got this year and a three year average.

    So what is the problem with his handicap as earned today? Certainly doesn't seem like he needs to be re-paceset. JMHO
    Last edited by Racer X; 12-13-2012 at 01:04 AM. Reason: Formatting
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    Sorry,Banana. The problem is one that Phil shares with 95% of the racers. He doesn't do well in the first time out of the gate for the year. I was at the trials today and I didn't do well either but, I feel that my times and my son's times were realistic when you consider who we were racing against. Maybe we all had artificially low handicaps a few years back and we as a whole are not really as good as we thought we were. Maybe you should start a fund raising drive so you can send Phil out west next Thanksgiving for a week long camp. Then I am certain he will be much faster at the pacesetting trials.
    Last edited by orionxprss; 12-13-2012 at 01:52 AM.

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    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
    Dunno - here are Phil Reese's Suit Results from the last four years at pacesetting trials:

    2009-10 - 9.15 On Buck at Crystal Mt.
    2010-11 - 5.39 On Cheers at Crystal Mt.
    2011-12 - 17.81 On North McLouth at Boyne Mt.
    2012-13 - 15.08 On Challenger At Boyne Highlands

    If you throw out the 2010-11 results on the flat Cheers course at Crystal as being an anomaly, since almost everyone there was a single digit, his three year average is 14.01. So considering that with Ligety being the pacesetter this year and the attendant handicaps being higher for everyone (look at the results if you want to see what I mean), there would only be a 1 point handicap difference between what he got this year and a three year average.

    So what is the problem with his handicap as earned today? Certainly doesn't seem like he needs to be re-paceset. JMHO
    I just did the math for the last three years with my calculator and his average would be 12.76 which works out much better than a 15 and a lot closer to his true handicap. Also how did AJs handicap come out to a 1.98 same as all the other years when he did so poorly racing Ligety? Lets just throw out Phils run and go back to his previous handicap.
    Last edited by Great Banana; 12-13-2012 at 07:57 PM.

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    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Banana View Post
    Also how did AJs handicap come out to a 1.98 same as all the other years when he did so poorly racing Ligety?
    Actually, you make a good point, GB... The best handicap that AJ got against Ted last year at Nationals was 3.60.

    Phil's handicap should actually be 16.70. Good catch on that. I'll let HQ know that the race needs to be re-calculated.
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    Senior Member Kanakry's Avatar
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    I feel as these pacesetter trials where the most fair/realistic in the last few years.

    Decent course, Snow held up good and good pacesetting.

    Maybe the problem isn't the system?

    I think for the most part it was a very accurate paceset. Yes people have bad days etc. But how is that the fault of NASTAR?

    So Phil is now going to repaceset off of Dave in a flat course. How is that accurate? Maybe Phil should repaceset off of Dave down Smokey. If your just going to repaceset someone every year why attend?
    Last edited by Kanakry; 12-13-2012 at 03:43 PM.

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    Administrator patmoore's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclose8 View Post
    The best handicap that AJ got against Ted last year at Nationals was 3.60.
    I was wondering the same thing. I figured we'd all go up by 1.62 this year and rightfully so. In fact, the HC chart for my age group raised the cutoff for Platinum by 2%.
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    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great Banana View Post
    ...and a lot closer to his true handicap. Lets just throw out Phils run and go back to his previous handicap.
    What IS Phil's "True Handicap?," and how would you suggest determining this "true" number that would be more accurate than having him race against the national pacesetter, on the same course, on the same day?

    I'm sure as the season goes on, we all get faster. Pacesetters AND racers. So wouldn't it kind of even out? If we held trials later, when everyone is in mid-season form, would the handicaps be lower? Or do you think AJ is just like everyone else in the world, and he would get proportionally faster too???

    Just some things to think about.
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    Just wondering why A J Kitt's handicap was a 1.98 when the best he did at winter Park was a 3.60. That would of made Phil's handicap even higher.

    First time on snow and conditions also influence handicaps. Have Fun. Ski Fast. Don't sweat the handicaps.

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    GB.., I do not agree with you that your area pacesetter or anyone else's handicap is too high, not correct, or should be averaged. 16 is the new 10, we all need to be comfortable with it.

    I have personally seen you ski against AJ on a flat hill (Cheers) and a steeper hill (Buck) on Jan 9/10 in 2010. On Cheers, you were a 5.77..wicked fast, you won your class and made the ROC (Congrats) which was run on Buck.

    On Buck, you ran an 18.8 handicap, you looked good, you skied it well

    GB, have you considered asking your local area if you can attend trials under their name? They can send 4 racers
    Last edited by cinciracer; 12-18-2012 at 03:58 AM.

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