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Thread: Looks like no more NASTAR at Vail Resorts

  1. #21
    Administrator patmoore's Avatar
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    Epicmix's website says the following:

    Will NASTAR be open at your resorts?
    No. The NASTAR race courses will no longer be offered at Vail, Beaver Creek, Breck, and Keystone.


    133 racers represented those four mountains at last year's Nationals. They will now have to qualify elsewhere. Vail is rewarding loyal customers by kicking them in the teeth.
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  2. #22
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    I certainly hope this will not adversely impact Nastar, it sounds to me like a total rip-off of the Nastar model. If I am going to head out west to ski I will go to the Park City area or Lake Tahoe...and yes I will race Nastar at Park City, Deer Valley and Alpine Meadows......so this does not impact me personally. And I will probably hit Nationals this year at Snowmass.

    I think it does reinforce how important regions like the midwest and east are to the Nastar program as a whole though. I do not see any resorts in those areas getting rid of their Nastar program except for financial or low attendance reasons.

    And BitterSweetRacer it is great to see you back on these boards! With our low snowfall I have not been back to Bittersweet in a few years. I hope you are enjoying Vail.

    CTC
    Last edited by ChiTownChick; 08-28-2012 at 12:41 PM.

  3. #23
    Senior Member BitterSweetRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownChick View Post
    I certainly hope this will not adversely impact Nastar, it sounds to me like a total rip-off of the Nastar model. If I am going to head out west to ski I will go to the Park City area or Lake Tahoe...and yes I will race Nastar at Park City, Deer Valley and Alpine Meadows......so this does not impact me personally. And I will probably hit Nationals this year at Snowmass.

    I think it does reinforce how important regions like the midwest and east are to the Nastar program as a whole though. I do not see any resorts in those areas getting rid of their Nastar program except for financial or low attendance reasons.

    And BitterSweetRacer it is great to see you back on these boards! With our low snowfall I have not been back to Bittersweet in a few years. I hope you are enjoying Vail.

    CTC
    They are trying to iron things out this week. Still nothing is final.

    I had to step away for a while to get up to speed as a Rocky Mountain professional ski instructor. The past two seasons I've been training for my Rocky Mountain Level 3 exam. I've also been playing a little in the Masters race arena and then some town series races. Being able to ski, race and teach out here has expanded my knowledge of skiing by 10 fold. One of these days I'll get back to the Midwest and have some fun.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterSweetRacer View Post
    Ok All, I have been in contact with the director of Vail Snowsports School director and the Vail Golden Peak Snowsports school POD director. I have pointed out a few concerns with this choice and they are in negotiations to clarify the issue. Nothing is final as of now. As I find out more about this issue I will post it.

    From my point this would be a huge mistake as I have posted before. The goal is to try and add more value for the customer while at the Vail resorts. Lindsey's marketing people have done a great job of getting her more known to the public than Ted. One of the draw backs of not having the Nastar program just from a PSIA view is the certification requirement. I doubt Vail resorts will want send it's hundreds of instructors trying for certification to other resorts to meet their PSIA racing requirement. I don't think they thought this one through as deeply as they needed to.
    I'd bet that PSIA would be willing to add the Vail race program results to the certification requirements in a New York minute to keep those "hundreds of instructors" active paying members of PSIA. Another quick alternative would be to remove the racing requirements altogether. I doubt PSIA could afford to lose the Vail Resort instructors. Vail, on the other hand may not think it needs PSIA.
    Lots of years, lots of fun.

  5. #25
    Senior Member BitterSweetRacer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slats View Post
    I'd bet that PSIA would be willing to add the Vail race program results to the certification requirements in a New York minute to keep those "hundreds of instructors" active paying members of PSIA. Another quick alternative would be to remove the racing requirements altogether. I doubt PSIA could afford to lose the Vail Resort instructors. Vail, on the other hand may not think it needs PSIA.
    After talking with the directors it turns out they have thought this one through. They will find a way to make this new program work for everyone. Vail is trying to Leverage it's strengths and skills to create the best possible experience for the guests and remain on the forefront of innovation. What is certain is this will usher in a new era with awesome opportunities. This will be a big change and will take the guest experience to a higher level in many way.

    I don't feel Vail thinks it is above the use of PSIA. As a Vail instructor I have received some of the best training ever over my career as a ski instructor both on snow and off the snow while at Vail through PSIA examiners and PSIA Rocky Mountain trainers. PSIA is a integral part of Vails instructor base and its standard is used when differentiation its instructor staff. If anything PSIA will adjust it's standard to allow the EpicMix results to meet the PSIA racing requirement.

    As for the racing requirement being part of the PSIA certification that's another topic. I personally feel it is valid. If anyone who knows me and knows where I came from you'd understand. Learning to race was the fundamental aspect of skiing that really improved my overall ability to ski and teach skiing. I have still learned way more from the instructors, trainers and examiners here at Vail and in the Rocky Mountain division of PSIA than anywhere else. Meeting the bronze for cert 1, sliver for cert 2 and gold for cert 3 are respectable requirements for a instructor.
    Last edited by BitterSweetRacer; 08-29-2012 at 09:51 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by BitterSweetRacer View Post
    After talking with the directors it turns out they have thought this one through. They will find a way to make this new program work for everyone. Vail is trying to Leverage it's strengths and skills to create the best possible experience for the guests and remain on the forefront of innovation. What is certain is this will usher in a new era with awesome opportunities. This will be a big change and will take the guest experience to a higher level in many way.
    That's crap. I like to race Nastar on my home mountain with my mother and my two boys. Then we like to go to Nationals and race there. I can't afford to take my kids to other mountains (other than the 5 that our ski passes allow us to go to- none of which now offer Nastar) to qualify. It was a fun activity that allowed three generations of skiers to enjoy racing together on a weekly basis, and then allowed us to on a family vacation every spring.

    Vail may want to "leverage it's strengths and skills to create the best experience for the guests," but kicking the locals in the teeth is a crappy way to do it.
    There are over a hundred skiers from Vail alone that went to Nationals, so obviously we're not the only ones who feel this way. Add in the Breck, Keystone, Beaver Creek etc. skiers, and you've got a pretty large contingent of toothless and pissed off people.

    Bottom line is that Vail Resorts bigwigs are looking out for VR's bottom line, and they're not terribly concerned about casualties.
    Last edited by Rawlings; 09-02-2012 at 05:19 PM. Reason: fix quote

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by patmoore View Post
    Epicmix's website says the following:

    Will NASTAR be open at your resorts?
    No. The NASTAR race courses will no longer be offered at Vail, Beaver Creek, Breck, and Keystone.


    133 racers represented those four mountains at last year's Nationals. They will now have to qualify elsewhere. Vail is rewarding loyal customers by kicking them in the teeth.
    Pat,
    You know I am a strong NASTAR supporter, but I also understand the system pretty well as do you.

    History has shown that when Nastar does not get to the magic number, they allow anyone to sign up that is willing to pay the fee, even up to the day before the races begin.

    The benefit of signing up this way is people get to pick the Division they want to run in if they do not have any Nastar results. (Why I lobby for an open Division for racers w/out results)

    They also get to pick what resort they will represent from the list of participating resorts.

    So all the folks at those Vail resorts will likely be able to participate if they want to as the 133 spots you identified will need to be filled.

    My only fear is that next year we will have a couple of people posting not about USSA Sandbaggers with no right to race Nastar Nat's, but those dang Vail, Beaver Creek, Breck and Keystone racers that raced a division or 2 lower than they did when they were qualifying to attend....

    So I say good luck to Vail Resorts, if things don't workout they may be back, but one things for sure, Nastar will be more than happy to take Vail Resorts racer's money if there's room and History shows us that there will be.

    Interesting Note: Nastar Registration e-mail came out today for resorts and Vail resorts had the top 3 in racer days last year
    Last edited by cinciracer; 09-04-2012 at 10:23 PM.

  8. #28
    Senior Member BitterSweetRacer's Avatar
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    I'm sure they will find a way to merge the two.
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  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownChick View Post
    I certainly hope this will not adversely impact Nastar, it sounds to me like a total rip-off of the Nastar model.
    Which was of course a "rip-off" of the French system to rank their instructors

  10. #30
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    Have to wonder if what has seemed to be a poor attitude towards some of the Vail resorts NASTAR programs has precipitated this...

    Breck's course and pacesetters have been the subject of a fair bit of negative from NASTAR over past years... constantly seemed to be under attack for having too easy a course(umm it is a flat hill - how can that be the pace setters fault)... pacesetters blasted on forum for being beaten by a couple of the local racers (who also do about teh same at Keystone)... (eg. The race that had results changed, reset, changed, reset) etc etc... Is part of the control thing to race how they want it done? Epicmix may be an excuse to get the racing how they want to see it. With around 13% of NASTAR race runs maybe they just decided to try to clean it up their way?

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