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Thread: Potential change to State & National Ranking rules

  1. #11
    Senior Member Stockliman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChiTownChick View Post
    That is why I did not go last year, I could not be competitive in the division I qualified in.
    I still like the idea of WYSIWIG. Where you end up is where you end up. Heck with the division ranking at the end of the year.

  2. #12
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    This new approach will end confusion but will not provide accurate handicaps. Using the middle times of all races would, not the fastest 3, not the slowest 3 but the middle 3. Of course there will be handicap issues with those that do not race much, There is no perfect system.

    For those that race 20 plus races a year at different resorts I know there will be resorts that do not uphold the integrity of the event and have "give away" handicap days or there will be those days that the course changes and all of a sudden you are a star.

    Just my 2 cents, maybe 1 cent. I am in no matter what.

  3. #13
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nastarjoe View Post
    This new approach will end confusion but will not provide accurate handicaps. Using the middle times of all races would, not the fastest 3, not the slowest 3 but the middle 3. Of course there will be handicap issues with those that do not race much, There is no perfect system.

    .
    That is a better idea than the one I had for those of us who race Nastar a lot. The middle three days, although it would be complicated to calculate that. There are just too many instances where you can get an incorrect handicap (ususally an issue with the pacesetter or course set) but taking your middle-best handicaps and averaging them would get around those anomolies.

    As I said before, I hope the Resort Ranking is the ranking for Nationals qualifications.

    Is it November yet? I sure hope we get some snow this year!!!

    CTC

  4. #14
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stockliman View Post
    I still like the idea of WYSIWIG. Where you end up is where you end up. Heck with the division ranking at the end of the year.
    I agree, that's what makes the Opens so much fun. Just show up, race and see where you end up.

    CTC

  5. #15
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    What ever the decision is to change National quailification, I do hope that it takes into account that not all Nastar racers are able to accumulate 5, 10 or 20 results before qualification cut-off. For some of us, getting to race 1 or 2 days prior to qualification is an issue. Our local mountain only runs Nastar as a beer league. Depending on the year, they may or may not have any Nastar-reported races prior to qualification. The next closest resort (3 hours away) that has Nastar only runs it noon to 1:00 on Tuesday, Thursday and Friday (makes it tough if you're working). Beyond that, the closest resorts running Nastar are 8 to 16 hours away. Contrary to some, it is not always easy to find a resort to qualify from. I understand that a 1 or 2 race qualifier may cause concern to some qualifers; nonetheless, I hope that they realize that the lack of quantity does not necessarily indicate an intent to "game" the system. It may, in fact, reflect the limited opportunities to race Nastar. I believe that participation at Nationals should be encouraged, and not tilted to the exclusion of those that can't race 5, 10 or 20 times before qualification cut-off. JDH

  6. #16
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JDH View Post
    Our local mountain only runs Nastar as a beer league. Depending on the year, they may or may not have any Nastar-reported races prior to qualification. JDH
    JDH - just curious: why would a beer league start so late in the season? Late February seems late to me to start a league.

    CTC

  7. #17
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    CTC, I don't have a good answer. The races occur on Wednesday evenings (two runs only, starting at 5:00 p.m.), and I've been told that the mountain organizers want to run the races when the days are starting to get longer. Not much of an answer, but the best I have. JDH

  8. #18
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    Thanks JDH. I guess the people who put the effort into setting up the races do what they can when they can. Too bad there isn't more Nastar in Idaho. Good luck finding a place to race this season.

    CTC

  9. #19
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    When looking at results to include for ranking, please consider going no deeper than the first 3 runs of the day in each separate course/race.

    Folks going from 18 to 8 in 10 runs of the same course artificially lowers handicaps and rankings.

    IMLTHO, If you can't throw A medal class without 4 to 10 shots at the course, you don' t deserve it.

    As for resort, state, national for qualifying, who cares what is used, just require folks to have a ranking in that category, or throw them in an open bracket in 10 year increments to make the ROC and exclude them from racing in medal categories with folks that support Nastar all season long witH 5 or more race days

  10. #20
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    New Qualifying System

    Quote Originally Posted by cinciracer View Post
    When looking at results to include for ranking, please consider going no deeper than the first 3 runs of the day in each separate course/race.

    Folks going from 18 to 8 in 10 runs of the same course artificially lowers handicaps and rankings.
    =====================

    True, but unless you're racing in a league, is there anything to prevent you from also "artificially" lowering your handicap by taking 4-10 shots at the course.

    I'm new to the sport (I race on a snowboard), having taken it up later in life, and NASTAR is my only opportunity to practice in gates, so I take all the reps I can.

    =====================

    As far as the new system goes, I like it. It's simpler, and more straightforward.

    However, I think NASTAR should take into account that some very good racers race only on tougher hills, so excluding them from Nationals based on a mediocre state or national handicap would be unfair.

    I think anyone who has delved into results and rankings has noted that there's a statistically significant difference in handicaps at different resorts. Theoretically, given a large enough number of racers and timed events at each resort, the average handicaps should be equal or near equal.

    There's a discussion regarding adjusting NASTAR handicaps of snowboarders based on the degree of difficulty of the course on the Bomberonline forum. While no one has proposed an acceptable solution yet, devising a formula to account for it should be possible given enough results.

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