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Thread: Pace the hill not the pacesetter?

  1. #11
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villaski View Post
    Ski selection, wax, how well the pacesetter slept the night before, the course set, the list goes on.
    Not to mention AMS, McDonald's Hotcake dough conditioner.... etc...
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclose8 View Post
    Not to mention AMS, McDonald's Hotcake dough conditioner.... etc...
    How many chocolate chips end up in my 3-packs of McDonald's cookies is very critical, too. All of my evening races were fueled by McDonald's cookies.

    On a serious note, though, a couple weeks ago in one post I started typing a list of variables affecting nastar race pace, and after about 30 I stopped, deleted what I'd written, because there will always be so many, more than nastar can control even with strict governing.

  3. #13
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villaski View Post
    We should probably all accept the system for what it is.

    Neil:

    For this comment alone, I am buying you a beer!! Any beer, your pick. This comment, while sometimes a brutally painful journey to arrive upon, is the essence of this deal called NASTAR ski racing. At least for me!

    Nice job dude!! Really.
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  4. #14
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villaski View Post
    ....there will always be so many, more than nastar can control even with strict governing.
    Nice post.
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  5. #15
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    At least I'm giving you guys something to think about.
    Your total negativity doesn't dissuade me for believing that a system that gives a guy a 30 one day and a 10 another on very similar hills has a few issues.
    Engineers like myself can't help but try and fix things that are broken.
    Non-engineers learn to love faulty stuff.
    Does anyone really believe that with 21st century information technology there isn't a way to compare amateur ski racers at least as well as amateur golfers are compared?

  6. #16
    Senior Member chuckp7600's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Kine View Post
    At least I'm giving you guys something to think about.
    Your total negativity doesn't dissuade me for believing that a system that gives a guy a 30 one day and a 10 another on very similar hills has a few issues.
    Engineers like myself can't help but try and fix things that are broken.
    Non-engineers learn to love faulty stuff.
    Does anyone really believe that with 21st century information technology there isn't a way to compare amateur ski racers at least as well as amateur golfers are compared?
    Couple thoughts
    1) total negativity? They're just pointing out all of the obvious problems
    2) ...technology - sure if you are willing to spend a crapload of money and add a ton of complexity it would be simple to solve most of your problems. Now who is going to pay for it?

  7. #17
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    Good stuff, JTBear. I may have to select O'Doul's, or Root, but I look forward to that.

  8. #18
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Kine View Post
    At least I'm giving you guys something to think about.
    Your total negativity doesn't dissuade me for believing that a system that gives a guy a 30 one day and a 10 another on very similar hills has a few issues.
    Engineers like myself can't help but try and fix things that are broken.
    Non-engineers learn to love faulty stuff.
    Does anyone really believe that with 21st century information technology there isn't a way to compare amateur ski racers at least as well as amateur golfers are compared?
    I don't blame you at all for wanting more accuracy. There are lots of variables that often can't be controlled. The best way to work within the framework of what we have is to have pacesetters that are very good SKI RACERS, that are very consistent. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible. In almost every case of inconsistent results, it points to an inconsistent pacesetter.
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  9. #19
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by villaski View Post
    Good stuff, JTBear. I may have to select O'Doul's, or Root, but I look forward to that.

    It will be my honor....
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by jclose8 View Post
    I don't blame you at all for wanting more accuracy. There are lots of variables that often can't be controlled. The best way to work within the framework of what we have is to have pacesetters that are very good SKI RACERS, that are very consistent. Unfortunately, that isn't always possible. In almost every case of inconsistent results, it points to an inconsistent pacesetter.
    JC has made a very important point here, pacesetter consistency. Pacesetters try their best but that is a tough one, even the World's best ski racers are not consistent----that is just the way it is!!!!! I do believe that the Nastar system does work and over time the numbers and ratings do work out the averages. I think the real problem here is that some racers just don't do well at the Nat's and are looking for ways to "fix their performance". With any system there will always be flaws but the Nastar System over time has worked quite well. Now that the sandbagger has been put in his/her place the flaws are fewer. This an amateur race league and it works quite well across the country, it may not be perfect but it does work and it works well. The only thing left to do is turn the pacesetters into machines where they are all equal. If everyone spent more time on the hill training and less time trying to out think Nastar we will all have a better time.

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