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Thread: Great Night at Keystone

  1. #1

    Great Night at Keystone


  2. #2
    Senior Member oldgold76's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adi View Post
    Just the opposite of my experience earlier this month. Only had a couple of hours to race during my one visit to CO this season. The course looked pretty tough and the starter told me they had set a much smoother one the day before. Just my luck. I got way behind early on my first run and barely managed to bash my way to a high gold. On my second run I skied what might have been the best race of my life, until I lost concentration three gates from the finish (when I thought for an instant I was going to finish the perfect run!) and found myself sliding headfirst down the side of the course before I even knew what happened. Didn't have time for a third try. Bad day, for the most part. Here's the epilogue. When I checked later I found the pacesetter had a handicap of about 21. During the previous season, in his final Nastar race, he had earned a sub-4 handicap. Hmm. Another case of questionable standardization, I guess. OG

  3. #3
    Senior Member chuckp7600's Avatar
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    In the case of the race the OP posted, must be a bunch of fast people in that league. Looks like the pacesetter is using the handicap he got vs AJ (3.95)

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by chuckp7600 View Post
    In the case of the race the OP posted, must be a bunch of fast people in that league. Looks like the pacesetter is using the handicap he got vs AJ (3.95)
    You just need to look at a few racers' last year scores and see that they are about 5 to 10 pts off of their best scores ever.

  5. #5
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    I have raced against Mr Jones in years past and he is consistently fast. There are a few race leagues in Summit County that have the fastest of the fast. The race league at Copper is one of the fastest groups around.

  6. #6
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Adi:

    I too am a bit confused by your post? Jonesy is the 2011 Masters DH National Champion and has won the Men's NASTAR National Championship 40-44 Platinum division 3 straight years, as well as finishing 5th (as a NASTAR competitor) in the 2011 Race of Champions. (And 11th overall vs. the field which included 6 members of USST) Oh yeah, and he put up a 3.95 at pacesetting trials vs. AJ in arguably the fastest pacesetter bunch in the country. Just a few salient facts. :o)

    So what's the point? Did you race the Weds Bus League?

    Just wondering.............
    <img src=http://pic100.picturetrail.com/VOL425/637370/22527991/376059857.jpg border=0 alt= />
    Carve Diem!! Charge The Course!!

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by JTBear View Post
    Adi:

    I too am a bit confused by your post? Jonesy is the 2011 Masters DH National Champion and has won the Men's NASTAR National Championship 40-44 Platinum division 3 straight years, as well as finishing 5th (as a NASTAR competitor) in the 2011 Race of Champions. (And 11th overall vs. the field which included 6 members of USST) Oh yeah, and he put up a 3.95 at pacesetting trials vs. AJ in arguably the fastest pacesetter bunch in the country. Just a few salient facts. :o)

    So what's the point? Did you race the Weds Bus League?

    Just wondering.............
    I am not questioning pacesetter's skills. He probably just had a bad day.

    For example, this racer is also a pacesetter with 16 trials handicap.

    http://skiracing.nastar.com/index.js...&compid=718558

    He finished this race with 4, just hundreds behind Jonesy. How do you make 2.5 seconds on 20 second course?
    Last edited by Adi; 01-27-2012 at 10:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Thanks for your reply. Actually, the answer is rather simple. The flatter the hill, the smaller the margin of separation between truly "Elite" racers and other people on skis. There a lots of NASTAR racers who fare very well on straight, flat hills. But, change the terrain and not so good.....

    Keystone's relatively flat course was likely set with a near "bullet tuck" offset (hint: less than one or two meters of left-to-right & right-to-left offset per gate) likely making the hill a total tuck-fest. Flat is flat and straight is straight. Make 'em turn, add some pitch and then you can have a different discussion with some different results.

    Now, considering the course setter (AJ Kitt), the pitch of the hill, the very reasonable amount of offset (5-7 meters) and the rock-hard conditions of the snow at Snowmass during the Dec 15th, Rocky Mtn Pacesetting trials, there was plenty of opportunity to separate the "Elite" racers like Jonesy from the other people on skis, such as Adam.

    That's my story, and I was at Snowmass on Dec 15th.

    The Bear
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  9. #9
    Than you The Bear for the explanation.

    This goes both ways, and it doesn't make it simple. It exposes another problem with pacesetting: if you are stuck with high handicap pacesetter on a hill like Keystone, you have no chances in setting a good handicap for yourself, because the course is level for all.

    Of course, it is not always as simple as that, as there are other factors in the race, like snow quality and instant weather conditions

    The thing with races like this one, where the pacesetter has such a low handicap, and makes an error or has a bad day (as I think must have happened), practically makes it impossible for anyone else who wasn't present on the hill for that event, to set a comparable score other days.

    One more observation: this race would have looked so much different had the other pacesetter handicap 16 been used for par time. This is his hill after all. Realy, is this pacesetter actually 4 handicap on his Keystone hill instead of 16, or is pacesetter 3 actually handicap 14 here?
    Last edited by Adi; 01-28-2012 at 06:42 AM.

  10. #10
    Gotta admit, I too, am very intrigued by the pacesetters result vs Mr Jones and hope to get a chance to congratulate him. It gets pretty crisp up there at night and the course obviously was running like greased lightning.

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