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Thread: Got my first platinum - and then NASTAR HQ took it away

  1. #21
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    Thanks Rod,
    Yes that has happened to us too... We need to find about 20 buddy racers and book a private race every day ;) .... or perhaps just saturday morning... :evilgrin:
    I would not mind that so much if the pacesetter ran again in the rutted up course...but you don't tend to see that...

    What I did find annoying was when we turned up to race at opening time for the course, course had been set and pacesetter had run. No signs... we wait... and wait... and then they turn up from the start shack to tell us they have a private race until 11(it is now 10.15) OK... we take a run have a drink and a toilet break... turn up at 11... 'Just a few minutes to reset the race in computer' OK... we wait... about 10mins later the 'private race group' reappear and run again... OK...'just need to reset the race' ... by 11:30ish we had had enough and the pacesetter was not running again - so we just bailed... too cold to safely run the course... On talking to staff the private race ran until 12pm - why was this not made clear at the start of the day? Could it be that area management just do not care about racing?

    If they need to run these private races to make it cost effective - fair enough. Surely though a notice can be placed at the lift, and with the multitude of staff that are paid to 'Welcome' us... so we all know the course is closed and exactly when it will reopen. Or better yet put a notice on the website.

  2. #22
    Senior Member putterman's Avatar
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    Now, this is a legitimate gripe. It seems like the staff at this particular resort doesn't give a hoot, and I wouldn't blame you one bit for not returning there for Nastar. Staff that doesn't accomodate and cater to ALL racers should not be manning the course. The only way they (the resort) will know about it is if you vocalize your disgust with whoever runs the racing at that resort. If they don't realize that they are not just losing your $5-10 for you not showing up at their resort to race, explain to them (politely) how each racer doesn't just bring them $5-10...the resort misses out on a lift ticket, lunch, and a number of other possible opportunitys. Not to mention, that money WILL go to another resort. I have found that resorts that care, will change their tune when it is addressed. Good luck (really, I 'm not saying that sarcastically) finding another resort that respects your money. There are a lot of them out there. Most actually realize what you bring to them, and others don't.
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    CRU145

  3. #23
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
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    Given the way NASTAR is set up, it is unrealistic for the pacesetter to run at the beginning and end of the day and then take the average of the two to establish par. The par needs to be set at the beginning of the race day, so that as racers finish, they can have their time, result, handicap and medal (if any) announced immediately. If they take a beginning and end of day average, handicaps and medals would have to be calculated at the end of the day, when many, or most, of the participants are long gone.

    The resort must be able to give out the medals immediately. Otherwise, the entire NASTAR concept breaks down.

    A good possible solution is for the pacesetter to take two runs on each course before anyone else has run, and take his better time as the paceset time.

    And if there is a private race, then the course should be re-paceset before the public race begins.

    Here is the crux of the problem.............some resorts (and pacesetters) care, and will do what is proper - re-paceset, etc. Others do not, and won't.

    If you want to race NASTAR, you have to accept this, because it is going to happen, and there is little you can do about it, save voting with your feet, and participating at resorts that care, and run a good, fair show.

    Another issue that I have recently run into, is pacesetters that try to make sure that no one beats them, by course setting, or re-running if someone does. But that's another post for another thread.........and ultimatley has the same answer as this one does........some care and some don't.

    Whoever said it earlier said it best.........run at the Open or at Nationals against AJ and the good guys (and girls) - pull a platinum there, and it is something to be proud of.

    BTW - I happen to agree that the results, once posted should not be changed or adjusted if no one has broken the par time. Period. Let the results stand for that race, as is, and if suspect, start another race as soon as you think something is amiss.

    JMHO
    If you win, but in so doing, lose the respect of your competitors, you've not won anything at all - Paul Elvestrom - 4 time Danish Olympic gold medalist in Sailing

  4. #24
    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
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    Matt maybe Mt. Holly should look at their race results. My problem is my pacesetter hates being beat by me so he always tries his best when I am there. He waits to hear my time and then reruns so he beats me. It makes for great competition for me though. I do hate when someones medal changes after the fact. The system will never be perfect so lets all enjoy what we have and race our best race.

  5. #25
    Senior Member putterman's Avatar
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    GB, I see nothing wrong with him rerunning the course after you've beaten his time...as long as they don't change the par time with each rerun. If the pacesetter doesn't like that you beat him, he has every right to go rerun. Of course, those times should go under his personal record. So when the results are posted, sure, he can have the fastest time. But it shouldn't be reapplied to the par time, unless they are calling it a new race.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
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    They do indeed change the par time time and do not call it a new race. The handicaps change after his rerun. My son had a 10 then Phil ran again and changed his 10 to a 12. This happens all year long at Nubs. If Phil runs again and his time is slower they still keep his faster run as the par time. I just have to live with this. It does make beating him even more enjoyable .

  7. #27
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    Yes GB - this is effectively what happened to me. Just reset par times to new par time but for old results. This changes medals & handicaps after the racer has run and perhaps even left the venue.

  8. #28
    Senior Member putterman's Avatar
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    While I don't agree with what they are doing, and I'd probably make a stink to the resort heads, more power to you. Sounds like you are taking over ripe bananas and making banana daiquiris!
    I drink, therefore I am!
    CRU145

  9. #29
    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
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    I just finished racing at Nubs and my first run was 4 handicap and my sons was a 9. Phil our pacesetter who did not not know I was there was in the finish shack when I ran .He immediately ran out after I finished, put his skis on and went back up and re-ran. This changed my handicap to a 9 and my sons to a 14. Even though the medals were given out and the handicaps were announced after the first run this all changed when Phil re-ran. I went to the GM right after this happpened and once again complained. He gave me the same response as before and said that he thought pacesetters were supposed to rerun. I said yes they can re-run but you are to close the race and start a new one. He did not understand this and said he will have to look at the rules. This is the same response I got from him the last time
    I brought this problem up. It feels like I am banging my head against a wall and no one can understand the NASTAR rules. Where can I get a copy of the rules to show my GM the correct way for pacesetter re-runs.

  10. #30
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    Great Banana

    here http://www.nastar.com/articles/pacesetting

    and here is the example that pertains
    Joe Fast is a pacesetter with a handicap of 10. Six inches of new snow fell the night before the race, and even though the hill has been groomed the course is still soft. Joe Fast pacesets the course and posts a time of 25.00 seconds. With his handicap of 10, the Par Time is 22.72. After 30 people race the course Joe Fast slides into the start to test the Par Time. Joe feels his skis sliding much faster across the snow and posts a time of 24.25, which earns him a handicap of 6.73. The timer deletes Joe's time from the race, opens a new race and enters Joe as the Pacesetter with a time of 24.25. Later in the day the course is rutted and icy but the race is only scheduled to run for 45 minutes more so resetting doesn't make sense. Joe Fast races again but he can only post a time of 26.00 seconds with a handicap of 17.96. The timer creates a new race and enters Joe as the Pacesetter with a time of 24.25.

    Participants will be more likely to take reruns when they feel they have a fair chance at winning earning an accurate handicap and medal. It is the race staff's responsibility to keep the guests informed and to let them know why the pacesetter is racing again.

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