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Thread: Got my first platinum - and then NASTAR HQ took it away

  1. #11
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    Fastman
    There seems to be some reason that pacesetters want to just rerun the course rather than starting a new race.
    This happened to me just last week when the pacesetter jumped back in the course after about 20 guys had gone then used his new time to reset par.
    No big deal but not by the rules.
    There must be some reason for this happening but darn if I can figure out why.
    Maybe NASTAR HQ doesn't like to see a pacesetter have too many second races in a day?
    Maybe the software is complex?
    Maybe?

    The only real beef I have with NASTAR is that they run the Nationals on a much steeper course than we race on in the Midwest.
    I would have to race Masters here to be prepared.
    I'm told that long ago NASTAR had a course grade specification but it was removed.
    NASTAR works best when you race your buddies locally and forget about the rest.

  2. #12
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    DaKine,
    I've received a reply from Bill Madsen and am trying to clarify what the situation is here.

    In this situation, due to changing course conditions, I cannot even compare my own handicaps when the par time is reset, because the course is different. Different enough the pace setter got a significant time boost from the second run, as did all the racers.

  3. #13
    Member cheesehead's Avatar
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    Where are you NASTAR HQ? I know you read these posts. I have seen you respond to them in the past. Explain yourself with a post here or we are all left to assume liltiger is right!

  4. #14
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    Cheesehead - even better if you read the thread entitled 'why bother with handicaps' you will see that JTBear is claiming this HAD to happen because the racers involved could not be allowed to beat AJKitts handicap. Funnily enough there are other races(Plural) where this handicap has been beaten and the handicaps NOT adjusted. If this is indeed the reasoning I would expect ALL of these races will be adjusted as well! Note that all but one of these racers has also committed the 'ultimate sin' like Metz of not going to Nationals. Shame! Shame! ;)

  5. #15
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    Oh and the current rules call for a reset if PAR TIME is beaten - not AJ's handicap.

    If this is how the rules are to be applied why is this not how they are written?

    Consistency would be nice here.

  6. #16
    Administrator patmoore's Avatar
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    Folks. Lets step back and take a deep breath. Two threads have been devoted to one run, on one day, at one resort out of hundreds of thousands of runs. I don't have all the facts in front of me. I can't comment on the fairness or adherence of the established guidelines because I was wasn't there. I do know that the system we have in place is an evolving one; occasionally changes are implemented and they usually result in improvements. Sometimes speed bumps are encountered - maybe not negotiated at the best possible velocity. Resorting to caustic and vituperative rhetoric diminishes the scope of any message one wants to send. We have an imperfect system but it's pretty darn good.

    LilTiger, my fervent wish is that you earn a Platinum medal this season when the results are incontrovertible. You will derive immense pleasure from your well-deserved accomplishment. If you join us in Winter Park, you have a congratulatory beer waiting from an arthritic 64 year old snowboarder who occasionally skis.
    Last edited by patmoore; 01-15-2011 at 09:46 PM.
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  7. #17
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    Pat - thanks.

    Not likely to make Winter Park. My disability means I have strange things happen when I ski. I am still trying to avoid racing in the disabled categories as I simply do not really fit any properly. There just are not many folks like me around. Not sure Bill Madsen spoke about trying to fit me into a section but I doubt they are aware how strange my disability really is. One of the big issues for me is ruts - any type freak me out. (Don't mention poles or anything else at eye height - I ski much better on low 'gates') Part of it is the disability and part head issues from having had a lot of accidents over a lot of time(50 years). Of course the pacesetters do not get out and rerun when the course ruts up and slows down.

    I am known to blow away very experienced disabled instructors with both my disability, my ability to ski on groomers despite the disability, and my total falling apart in bumps, powder etc. I am told once I get the head space of the seeing poles thing sorted I'll make big gains. I'm close but not there yet. I think the ruts will go the same way about the same time - most of my issue these days is seeing them and trying to take routes around them(don't ask).

    I'm working towards consistent sub-20 handicaps as my next goal after Platinum. Atm I am thinking to give up totally on NASTAR handicaps and simply handicap myself from Rick as I know we both run at the same time in the same course. No amount of 'fiddles' from HQ can change that on me it should be a lot more consistent to pace myself as a percentage of his time than to use the NASTAR handicaps and par times.

    I guess if I have anything to say about how rules should be changed, after my experiences, it would be as summarised.
    1. Get pacesetters to run course every 2-3 runs consistently through the day and start new races as needed from those results.
    2. If resets are to occur when anyone gets near AJ's handicap rather than when par time is broken then write this into the rules and apply this consistently across the country not just at one race at one venue.

  8. #18
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Janis, (liltiger)...

    Looking at the results, I can see you took 8 race runs that day. I think a simple solution is to let the pacesetter run as many times as he wants too.... you take your fastest and compare it to his fastest.
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  9. #19
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    No I didn't take 8 runs.

    They did not close the race properly and carried the first race over into the second - check it out and you will see a bunch of duplicates. I took 3 runs with the slower course - then ran some jackets and packs down through the course the last 2 times. (skiing with friends). So Yes I have times but as you could barely see me for the pile of coats the last 2 runs I don't really count them myself. Why did I run the course - see above I have issues which are helped by exposure at slower speeds.

    In reality I have exactly 3 real runs all taken on the slower course before the reset. I have 2 more runs that were taken wearing a bunch of coats and a pack. ie more gear than me!

  10. #20
    Hello,
    I totally understand this is meant for fun and that resorts have limited resources.
    This being said I am simpathetic to the issue raised here, having had experience with it from the opposite end. On two recent outings of mine the course was set, the acesetter ran and par time established. Before nastar participants were able to run, close to 100 participants of a clinic in one istance and a private club in the other, ran the course. The course was in such poor condition I didn't allow my kids to run. The resort had no answer for me other than they were busy. It seems at the very least the pacesetter should have started a new race with a new par time. Another Idea would be for the pacesetter to make the first run and the last run on a course then average his times to establish the par time. I would liketo hear others ideas on this. The average time would seem to be a means of addressing changing conditions with a minimal lamount of effort. Liltiger.....regardless of a medal CONGRATULATIONS! on your nw personal best!!

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