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Thread: Sandbagging

  1. #21
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
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    Actually, there are Austrailians who race Nationals almost every year. My daughter had an Aussie girl in her class a few years back with exactly the same scenario - only raced two days, qualified just above the limit, then blew away the class by 10-15 handicap points at Nationals. Didn't seem fair, but my daughter still got on the podium, and the girl who won the class got smoked in the ROC.

    Not much you can do about it, other than enjoy the expereience. If you go out with the expectation that you're going to get on the podium, you are only setting yourself up for dissapointment, and a sour experience.

    JMHO
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  2. #22
    Administrator patmoore's Avatar
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    If you go out with the expectation that you're going to get on the podium, you are only setting yourself up for dissapointment, and a sour experience.[/b]
    Matt, I concur completely. There will always be a handful trying to beat the system. The Nationals experience is all about fun. Making the podium is a bonus.

    I just did a quick look at my competition this year. Of the eleven registered in my age group/division (with a few hours to go before the deadline) I rank dead last in handicaps. Of the 68 guys with National rankings I rank 53rd. Competing at Winter Park are numbers 1, 2, 4, 7, 10, 19, etc.... Lowest HC in my division is 5.22 while mine is 15.29. In horse racing terms I'm a long shot. I plan on giving it my all and will consider it a major accomplishment if I can finish in the middle of the pack.

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  3. #23
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    Actually, there are Austrailians who race Nationals almost every year. My daughter had an Aussie girl in her class a few years back with exactly the same scenario - only raced two days, qualified just above the limit, then blew away the class by 10-15 handicap points at Nationals. Didn't seem fair, but my daughter still got on the podium, and the girl who won the class got smoked in the ROC.

    Not much you can do about it, other than enjoy the expereience. If you go out with the expectation that you're going to get on the podium, you are only setting yourself up for dissapointment, and a sour experience.

    JMHO[/b]
    Oh, I'm not. The competition was already stiff and I am only a mid 20's Silver skier. I just have a feeling this guy is going to smoke all of us. From his name, I'm guessing he's a German or Austrian transplant...so he probably came out with skis on at birth...lol. It's doubly annoying that they let him in AFTER "qualifications" was over. Letting people come who maybe placed 4th or 5th at their resort during the qulifying period is one thing, letting someone "qualify" the week before Nationals is another.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member putterman's Avatar
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    Um, okay, Pat... You know what the odd are on you right now? Psssshhh, you don't even want to know. I got my money on you back when you said your knee hurt and you might not be going. The odds were better then. It's a waste of money to bet on you now. I think your pay out is around 4/5. Even if you pull the double gold again, payout might reach about 2/1. No pressure, buddy... :mrgreen:
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  5. #25
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    There is a racer signed up in my Female 50-54 Gold Division at Nationals who did not even race Nastar this year. I guess it does not matter if you qualify or not anymore, or even race once in the year..... and I would guess that the cut off for registration will not be tonight either, none of the rules seem to be applying.

    I've never seen this before and this is my sixth Nationals. Maybe they have to reach a certain number of racers this year....they seem to have a good number already. I wonder what gives. Certainly makes me angry.....


    CTC

    Yeah, check this guy out! I'm guessing he came over from Austria or Germany. http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=r...p;compid=751191 He just raced on the 15th and 16th (of March!)and then registered for Nationals...WTH? According to his record, he's never even run NASTAR before (or just not under this account). On top of that, he's on the verge of being a gold racer...I have a feeling the rest of us in the division are screwed. I'm normally not one to complain about sandbagging, but the whole thing seems a bit fishy.[/b]

  6. #26
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    Actually I am going to have to disagree with Pat and X here. The experience is secondary to me. I am going out to win. I expect to win. I am spending a lot of money to compete and I expect the playing field to be level. If I wanted to spend money just for the experience I would not be going. There are a lot of other things I could spend my money on and have just as much fun. Now with that said, if the playing field is level and I come in dead last in my division I can not ask for anything more. I will have been beaten by people that deserve it.

    At last look there are 21 guys in my division. (mens 40-44 Silver) There are two guys that registered/qualified in the Silver division that are now ranked in the Gold division, Nationally. They are still in the Silver division. How is that fair? There is no way I can pull a mid to upper teens handicap to compete with these guys. They should be automatically moved into the Gold division prior to Nationals. Now looking at the rest of the guys I think I have a shot. Just like Pat, my national ranking is close to the bottom of the Silver division. But I believe that I have just as much chance to win as they do. I may have to have the best run I have ever had to do it but I think I have a fair shot.

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  7. #27
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    There is a racer signed up in my Female 50-54 Gold Division at Nationals who did not even race Nastar this year. I guess it does not matter if you qualify or not anymore, or even race once in the year..... and I would guess that the cut off for registration will not be tonight either, none of the rules seem to be applying.

    I've never seen this before and this is my sixth Nationals. Maybe they have to reach a certain number of racers this year....they seem to have a good number already. I wonder what gives. Certainly makes me angry.....

    CTC[/b]
    CTC, I noticed that, as well as a couple of people in that group who should probably be in Platinum. I heard informally a couple of years ago that if you didn't qualify but wanted to race, you probably could. Now it doesn't even seem to be informal--Putterman said he received an email recently that said the same thing. Maybe that's what happened with the late entrant in your group.

    IMO, if they are not going to stick to the rules for qualifying, they should just eliminate them and make it an Open, like the regionals. Although if they do that, I think they should still have a minimum race requirement (2 days?) for group placement, and should stick to the cutoff date.

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  8. #28
    Senior Member Stockliman's Avatar
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    Check this guy out. All season long he's Silver/Gold. Right after the 2/17 qualifyiing cut off rolls around he's single digit Platinums.
    http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=r...mp;compid=17587
    Falls under "things that make you go hmm".

  9. #29
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    I will be sending an email off to HQ to address this issue and find out what if anything the plan to do with the two persons in my division. I would assume if the two competitors got bumped up into the Gold division that they would not have an issue with it if they were not sandbagging. Not saying they are.
    Go hard or get outta my way.

  10. #30
    Senior Member putterman's Avatar
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    Hey, of course I have no idea what the real reasons are for the late entries etc, but I think I can take a preeeeeeety goooooood stab at it...

    I would bet it has something to do with attendance numbers. Nastar is a business. Nationals is an event, put on by a business, that probably has some sort of bottom line number of contestants that it NEEDS to have show up for it to be profitable.

    Think of it this way, if they don't get those numbers, they don't make money. What happens to businesses that don't make money? :roll:

    Not saying that you guys don't have legitimate concerns or gripes, but I'm sure HQ doing all they can to get racers to attend so they can keep their heads above water. Which in turn, keeps Nastar available for all of us.

    Again, not saying you don't have legit gripes, maybe there can be other ways to place everyone in more appropriate divisions etc, but numbers need to be met for profitability. I haven't looked at the numbers yet to see how many have signed up. But, remember, too, that their reputation is on the line. They booked a resort for probably 4 years of holding Nationals based on what they believe they can pull (numbers wise) and have to hold up their end of the bargain. Also, it looks like there will be some sort of media there this year, so they NEED the numbers up for that reason, too.

    I have more thoughts but need to get out to my horses...
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