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Thread: Ski separtation

  1. #1
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    Sorry that should be separation, fat fingers

    Hey guys and gals,
    Thanks to Pat for some great pics at the Open. Fortunately I was able to sit down and have them analyzed as well. One thing that was pointed out was the separation of my skis coming out of a turn. Meaning my skis were not parallel. My outside ski was pointing more down hill then my inside ski. What would be the cause of this? How do I correct it? Is it because I am not properly balanced and I have to much weight over my inside ski? I noticed from the pics there were alot of skiers that were doing the same thing.

    Pat feel free to use any of my pictures to help out

    Thanks in advance
    Copper
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  2. #2
    Senior Member Stockliman's Avatar
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    Sorry that should be separation, fat fingers

    Hey guys and gals,
    Thanks to Pat for some great pics at the Open. Fortunately I was able to sit down and have them analyzed as well. One thing that was pointed out was the separation of my skis coming out of a turn. Meaning my skis were not parallel. My outside ski was pointing more down hill then my inside ski. What would be the cause of this? How do I correct it? Is it because I am not properly balanced and I have to much weight over my inside ski? I noticed from the pics there were alot of skiers that were doing the same thing.

    Pat feel free to use any of my pictures to help out

    Thanks in advance
    Copper[/b]
    Gerry,
    I have a similar problem occasionally & was told that I get too "uphill ski dependent". Try a free skiing drill on the downhill ski only for each turn.

  3. #3
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    Gerry,
    I have a similar problem occasionally & was told that I get too "uphill ski dependent". Try a free skiing drill on the downhill ski only for each turn.[/b]
    Wow, I never seem to have that problem. I can't imagine how I would even get into that situation...is it a fault in my technique (ie: should I be having this problem)? By experimenting, I've found that putting too much weight on the inside/uphill ski always seems to throw me over top of that ski and off-kilter..like "OMG! here comes the crash" bad. I found that about 70/30 downhill/uphill seems to work the best for me. However, I've seen varying arguments from coaches online that range anywhere from almost no inside/uphill edge, to 50/50 distribution. Watching the pros, it's obvious that the inside ski does do some of the work, but I don't think it's at 50/50 either. Maybe Bob Harwood has a take on it, if he's around?

    P.S.- I'm talking GS turns here. At least for me, increasing the radius seems to move closer to 60/40 distribution, and decreasing it seems to move closer to 80/20.
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  4. #4
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    You're likely doing one (or many) of several things, which can be interrelated:
    You're leaning back. In other words, your belly button is behind your boots.
    You're leaning into the turn, instead of leveling your shoulders at the apex of the turn.
    You're dropping your inside hand, which can also cause you to fall inside.
    You're holding onto the last turn too long, instead of projecting your body into the next turn.
    You're scissoring your turns, and your inside ski has excessive lead at the bottom of the turn.

    Video or a still of your skiing would likely confirm one or more of these, but these are the usual suspects.

  5. #5
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    VERY common issue. It is called "diverging parallel" or often referred to as "too much inside tip lead"

    The problem with this is that as the outside ski starts to track downhill, the hips open up, more weight will be transferred to the inside ski, and eventually you will lose edgegrip on your outside ski.

    To avoid this, you need to actively think about pulling your inside foot back under your hips (or advancing your outside foot.... you may find thinking about it one way or the other may work better for you). I even go so far as to often start a turn with a slight converging stance (wedge?). Non-braking wedge, of course.... both the inside edge of my outside ski and the outside edge of my inside ski are engaged at the beginning of the turn, but my tips start out pointing somewhat at each other. As edge pressure builds in the turn, the skis become parallel.

    If you can keep them perfectly parallel, fine! But given the two choices, I would err on the side of slight convergence at the beginning of the turn.

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  6. #6
    Administrator patmoore's Avatar
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    Jerry,

    Here are two shots of you in sequence from Saturday. The divergence is pretty prominent but I think that was an aberration. The rest of your run looked pretty good.
    <div align="center">


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  7. #7
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    [attachment=138:nastar_32609.jpg]



    Looks like this skier :wink: has the same issue. Wonder if custom arch supports inside the boots would keep the downhill knee from rolling inward?

    She&#39;s pretty fast even with this divergence!

  8. #8
    Senior Member IN.racer's Avatar
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    Almost all the time diverging skis (tips apart) are caused by too much weight on the inside ski. In all of the attached photo&#39;s (with the exception of Hermann Meier) the racer&#39;s are carrying weight on their inside ski. Get your weight on the outside ski! Forget about equal weighting, 60/40, 70/30. While racing and high speed carving, make it 95/5 or in a lot of cases, 100/0.

    How you ask? To dedicate your weight to the outside you must purposely LIFT the inside. Not totally off the ground but lift to unweight. How do you think the pros get that radically bent inside leg? By lifting it towards their chest. At the very instant you transition, lift your inside knee towards your chest, your body falls to the inside, you dedicate your weight to the outside and you rocket around the gate with nice parallel skis. That&#39;s all there is to it, over and over through the course.

    Most any coach will tell you the number one issue most racers have is failure to commit to the outside ski. Too many skiers believe the myth that with the &#39;new&#39; skis we now use equal weighting. THIS DOES NOT APPLY TO RACING!

    Look at the second frame of Hermann just above the blue gate. Perfect parallel skis at that moment. His right knee is coming towards his chest (unweighting) and he is dedicating his weight to the outside left ski. The next frame his left ski is totally engaged (weighted) and carving. It is now carving a tighter arc than his totally unweighted inside ski, that is why they look like a wedge. This wedge (tips together) position, is just the opposite of a weighted inside ski, tips apart position.

    Just one man&#39;s humble, (yet informed) opinion.

    Edit for more clarification: In bmores first frame, he is leaning in and losing the edge grip on his outside ski. In this frame his left knee should be up, so the weight is totally outside. In frame two, he now fell inside and slid low and below the gate, because of no dedication to the outside ski. Got it?

    TeamHUB may have alignment issues but still shows lack of dedication to the outside ski. In that frame, her weight is almost straight down on the flat inside ski. LIFT that inside knee and get off that ski!! By lifting the inside knee and letting yourself fall inside, that inside ski will not be as flat.

    Also, in Hermanns wedge looking position just below the gate, this is perfectly acceptable; in fact there is no getting around it. If you are standing totally on your outside ski (like you should be), it will of course carve more than your unweighted inside ski. It HAS to. His ski position there is not something you have to try and achieve, it will happen on its own if your weight is totally outside. Like Jamie says above, not only actively hold or pull that inside foot back, but also LIFT it.

    Not to pick on bmore or TeamHUB. Only sharing what Ive learned from better racers than me.
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  9. #9
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    We certainly agree on one thing- concentrating on how much weight is on each ski is just plain counter-productive. Skiing is a dynamic sport, and over the course of any given turn sequence I can go from 50/50 to 100/0. It depends on where I am in the turn, as well as the intent and conditions.

    Here&#39;s what I&#39;m focusing on with my Masters racers:
    • Early edge angle, high in the arc. To create this, they have to project their body into the new turn. Can&#39;t fake it with knee angulation- you have to commit the body.
    • Level the shoulders at the apex (widest part) of the turn to balance on the outside ski.
    • Body driving throughout the arc to avoid "bracing" at the bottom of the turn and facilitate initiation of the next turn. No pendulum (fore-aft) motion.
    • Stand forward, not up in the transitions.
    90% of this is just developing a "go-there" attitude, which can be hard to do in the gates- especially for adult athletes.

    The lifting thing is something I rarely touch on anymore, preferring the pull back motion. I find that it can hinder smooth transitions for many people. While the goal is still to remain primarily outside ski dominant, the pulling back of the inside ski allows the inside to stay engaged in the turn without committing significant weight. Lifting is a perfectly valid style of skiing, but I just prefer another route.

  10. #10
    Senior Member ChiTownChick's Avatar
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    These comments from you pros are very helpful. I don&#39;t have the ski divergence problem, but have plenty of others that I think your comments are addressing.

    I have been taking instruction from the racing team coach, and doing clinics when possible and am really pleased with the way I am skiing. I am carving better and my overall skiing is much better. I need to widen my stance more (I&#39;m old school) and keep my weight balanced and forward more...but things are coming together.

    The problem is my race times are slower and my handicaps higher across the board, at all the resorts I have raced Nastar this season compared to my results at the same resorts last year. It has been very frustrating. Somehow the improvement in my skiing has not translated into racing, just the opposite. But I figure I will just keep plugging along and eventually it will kick in, and I am enjoying just skiing so much I still feel good about it all.

    Thanks for the comments Jamie, in.racer and Alaska Mike above. Tomorrow when I am back out there I will keep these things in mind, particularly the weight on the outside ski issue and the level shoulders around the turn apex......

    CTC :cool:

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