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Thread: Changing the par time during the race

  1. #11
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    Got an email back from NASTAR HQ on this...

    They say they have reset the par time of the first race to that of the second race because otherwise there were some "low handicaps". Two of the faster racers in that race have consistent history of "low handicaps" over several years. It seems that now they are not allowed to get a low handicap if there is a way for HQ to "tweak" the results.

    So bye bye to my first platinum medal.

    Time to tell everyone that I have been spruiking up NASTAR to that NASTAR HQ 'cheats' if they don't think a racer should get a low handicap.

  2. #12
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by liltiger View Post
    Time to tell everyone that I have been spruiking up NASTAR to that NASTAR HQ 'cheats' if they don't think a racer should get a low handicap.
    As noted in the attached thread, I disagree. Read on.....

    http://forums.nastar.com/showthread....2201#post22201
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  3. #13
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    and... you were wrong!

  4. #14
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Janis, (liltiger)...

    Looking at the results, I can see you took 8 race runs that day. I think a simple solution is to let the pacesetter run as many times as he wants too.... you take your fastest and compare it to his fastest.
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  5. #15
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    Nope I took 3 runs in the slower course which are duplicated into the new race that occurred (as per the rules) after conditions changed sufficiently that the par setter considered they needed to re set the par time.

    The rules say those results should stand with the original par time. They have not. They have been altered to the new par time.

    My other 2 runs, the course had rutted up. This is an issue with my disability. So I ran the course in a couple of jackets with a pack on as a gear runner. I ran the course solely as a part of my training to overcome my disability. (I have poor perception of which way is up, where I am positioned etc which is affected badly by visual input due to the ways I compensate. Yes I ski better when visibility is poor, which is weird.)

  6. #16
    Senior Member Great Banana's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VAskier View Post
    rc, I would contact the race director at the hill, and also write to Bill Madsen at Nastar HQ to let him know this is happening. I did so recently, and he sent me a link to the rule about this on the Nastar web site, which I sent to the race director at our local ski resort. Here is the link:

    http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=r...tinfo#integrity

    It confirms that when a pacesetter takes another run and sets a new par time, the first set of results are supposed to be saved, and a new race started, using the new par time. This means that people will be running against a par time that reflects the course conditions when they take their run--not against a par time run at a later point when the course may be running faster--or slower.

    Bill also said that the pacesetters receive "extensive training" at the Nastar pacesetting trials, and that it is outlined in the resort materials and on the web site, but the fact that this continues to happen makes it apparent that a reminder of some sort is needed. The more people report this as happening, the more likely it is that something will happen to change it, I think. You can write to Bill Madsen, the Nastar Director of Operations, at: NASTARHQ@MSN.COM
    I tried this link and it only takes me to the NASTAR home page. Anyone know where I can get a copy of the re-run rules to show my GM.

  7. #17
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    see other thread GB

    Also that email address was not Bill Madsens - I can give it to you if you need but found it easily on google...

  8. #18
    This happened quite often over the past few years if I get a 0 handicap they reset the race and then my handicap jumps up. The Nastar theory is that it should be impossible for anyone other than the National Pacesetter to beat Par and get a 0 HC therefore they cancel out the race as if it never happened.

    No big deal for me, but everyone else who raced that day gets burned which really is very unfair.
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  9. #19
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    Fact is, NASTAR racing is a discipline that emphasizes different skills than balls to the wall ski racing.
    The big dogs can be beaten on a low gradient course if they are not practiced at momentum conservation and the wax of the day.
    Likewise, when NASTAR sets a much steeper course for the nationals, they predetermine the winners to be racers who have developed their skills on these courses.
    NASTAR is supposed to be about comparing myself to a pro on MY hill, not about comparing a bunch of amatuers to a pro on a Masters level course.
    We all know how that comes out.

    That said, NASTAR management makes the rules and they work pretty well locally.
    When NASTAR doesn't follow its own rules. that's another problem.
    Nothing prevents a pacesetter from running the course a couple of times before the race is set.
    However, I have a lot of sympathy for pacesetters who probably make less than minimum wage if they hang around for the whole race.
    I'm going to be taking up a collection to tip our local pacesetter and thank him at the end of the season.

  10. #20
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Da Kine View Post
    NASTAR is supposed to be about comparing myself to a pro on MY hill,
    I do not agree that NAtional STAndard Racing is a "MY hill only" program. It's a National Program attempting to normalize a scoring system that can provide Nation-wide comparison, against a standard. (Certified Pacesetters)

    My 2 cents..........
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