+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 27

Thread: Changing the par time during the race

  1. #1
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    143
    What are the rules or guidelines (if there are any) regarding changing the par time after the race has started, and making it "retroactive" to the earlier racers? I raced on Sunday and was told my handicaps and medal (gold) on three runs, and later, when I checked my results, the handicaps were 6-9 points higher, and I had a silver. Huh?? They were also much higher than I had the previous week (over 10 points higher), and higher than I had the whole season before last (I couldn't ski last year, due to shoulder surgery). I'm guessing the course got faster over time, the pacesetter ran again, and they used that run for the new par time. But is that fair to those of us who ran earlier? I also suspect that the pacesetter's handicap (15) is too high for him. The pacesetter for last week also had a 15, and I know this second pacesetter is faster . . .


  2. #2
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Elba Island, MI
    Posts
    1,223
    This exact question came up at pacesetter trials earlier this year (two weeks ago, in fact), and according to Bill Madsen, if the course gets faster (or slower) to the point where the pacesetter feels like he needs to re-paceset, then a new race should be started, and the old (existing) race closed out, and those results be recorded and stand as is.

    It should read in the results section as follows:

    NASTAR Daily Race #1
    NASTAR Daily Race #2

    This is pretty standard, how to handle it is in the rules, but has been an ongoing problem at different resorts over the years. Unfortunately, this problem seems to come up every year.

    From my take on things, it takes a little bit of effort to close out a race and start a new race, and my guess is that it is easier for the staff to just simply insert the newer pacesetter time, hoping (and mostly being correct) that no one will notice (or care).

    I'd shoot off an email to the resort and ask for an explanation, and if that does not satisfy you, then contact Bill Madsen at HQ and explain to him the particulars, and ask if he can straighten it out for you.
    If you win, but in so doing, lose the respect of your competitors, you've not won anything at all - Paul Elvestrom - 4 time Danish Olympic gold medalist in Sailing

  3. #3
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    143
    Thanks. That's exactly what I thought was supposed to happen. I have emailed the race director (and sent part of your post), asking if he could either re-do last week's results, or at least explain to the area's pacesetters how it should be handled in the future.


  4. #4
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Gaylord, MI
    Posts
    333
    I am glad that he addressed this issue. With the above response I think that is the only fiar way to handle a race. Have you guys ever see a pacesetter rerun later because the course has deteriorated to the point where everyone is very high? Its all about the pacesetters ego so starting a new race is the only fiar way to handle this.
    An eye for an eye!

  5. #5
    Senior Member BitterSweetRacer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Avon, CO
    Posts
    249
    From my take on things, it takes a little bit of effort to close out a race and start a new race, and my guess is that it is easier for the staff to just simply insert the newer pacesetter time, hoping (and mostly being correct) that no one will notice (or care).[/b]
    Nope it's not a problem at all to start a new race. That was one of the fixes they made in the software for this season. You could still do it with the old software you just had to hunt for the racers data base (which isn't that hard using Windows Explorer) and copy it to the new location for the new race. Now you can do all of this with in the Nastar software in two clicks.
    Sometimes the Dragon wins, So Be the Dragon.
    HOR356
    Powered by Blizzard skis, Marker bindings and Head boots
    Fueled by Knights in Shiny Armor, Raisin Bran Crunch and Gatorade

  6. #6
    Senior Member Racer X's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    Elba Island, MI
    Posts
    1,223
    Nope it's not a problem at all to start a new race. That was one of the fixes they made in the software for this season. You could still do it with the old software you just had to hunt for the racers data base (which isn't that hard using Windows Explorer) and copy it to the new location for the new race. Now you can do all of this with in the Nastar software in two clicks.[/b]
    Thanks...........the solution .............. from an expert! :wink:

    Sounds like a simple thing to start a new race.
    If you win, but in so doing, lose the respect of your competitors, you've not won anything at all - Paul Elvestrom - 4 time Danish Olympic gold medalist in Sailing

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    143
    Good to know about the software. Thanks! I wrote an email to Bill Madsen, and he sent me a link to the rules about this, which confirm what the posters on this thread have said--a new race is supposed to be started when changing the par time.

    Here is the link, for those who are interested: http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=resortinfo#integrity

    Happy Holidays to all! Maybe see some of you at Nubs Nob on Sat. and Sun!

    </span></span>

  8. #8
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Boulder, Colorado
    Posts
    66
    At Copper on Friday Dec 26 I had a 10 handicap in the morning. They re-paceset later but did not change to a new race so my handicap got recorded as a 16. Is there any way to correct this?

  9. #9
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Alexandria, VA
    Posts
    143
    rc, I would contact the race director at the hill, and also write to Bill Madsen at Nastar HQ to let him know this is happening. I did so recently, and he sent me a link to the rule about this on the Nastar web site, which I sent to the race director at our local ski resort. Here is the link:

    http://www.nastar.com/index.jsp?pagename=r...tinfo#integrity

    It confirms that when a pacesetter takes another run and sets a new par time, the first set of results are supposed to be saved, and a new race started, using the new par time. This means that people will be running against a par time that reflects the course conditions when they take their run--not against a par time run at a later point when the course may be running faster--or slower.

    Bill also said that the pacesetters receive "extensive training" at the Nastar pacesetting trials, and that it is outlined in the resort materials and on the web site, but the fact that this continues to happen makes it apparent that a reminder of some sort is needed. The more people report this as happening, the more likely it is that something will happen to change it, I think. You can write to Bill Madsen, the Nastar Director of Operations, at: NASTARHQ@MSN.COM

  10. #10
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Posts
    116
    I've had the same issue with Breckenridge.
    Rang the race dept - got it fixed and the 'original' results put back.
    Now they have 'redone' the par times on the first race to match the second race.

+ Reply to Thread

Similar Threads

  1. Discount Time
    By sunstar97 in forum NASTAR National Championships
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-17-2008, 04:03 PM
  2. NASTAR Headquarters is changing handicaps after posting
    By wendyracer in forum Results and Rankings
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 02-22-2006, 07:30 PM
  3. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-18-2004, 02:54 AM
  4. What time do you have to be at the races????
    By Anonymous in forum NASTAR Rules
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-18-2004, 01:11 AM
  5. Handicap vs race time - 9-10 Boys - Confused on Rankings
    By Anonymous in forum Results and Rankings
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 03-06-2004, 04:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts