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Thread: Huge Loss to our Forum

  1. #1
    Senior Member
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    After years of being our single largest contributor of technical advice, backtomasters has withdrawn
    from our forum and has removed his years of posts. Love him, hate him, agree with him, disagree
    with him it didn't matter- Gary was always willing to help those of us who were less talented.
    All you had to do was ask and Gary would give you a 30 page disertation on where to hold your hands.
    His passion for the sport and especially his commitment to help others was boundless.

    It's a damn pity that Trolls could drag our once civil forum into the gutter. Relentless attacks on our
    our program and on individuals have driven valuable members away and has left in it's wake
    spineless, clueless, non-contributing Trolls to fill the void. How sad.

    Advice to Rush & the rest of the Trolls:
    1. Grow a set. You got a beef, stop hiding behind the anonymity of the internet and confront the 'supposed'
    offender and the powers that be- direct.
    2. If you have nothing to contribute and just want to fight, try Ultimate Wrestling. If you want to start a little
    easier, try me - hell I'm paralysed & you might actually stand a chance... but I doubt it. If you have to hide
    behind the web to begin with, I seriously doubt you have the Gahonies to take my 9 yr old daughter with Spina
    Bifada.
    (Oh yeah, that is my real name on the avatar)

    I am truely sorry that we lost BTM. I valued his contributions and I will gain nothing from the trash that is left in
    his wake.

  2. #2
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    Arrow

    I have only been a member for a few weeks but Gary has already taught me a lot. I miss him and hope he will rejoin us someday. I have also left message boards in the past because of trolls. I hope I don't have to leave this one too for this one I like, most everyone here is nice. Not like horse boards where when you post something everyone jumps on it and says some part of how you handling your horse is WRONG. :roll: (Ok so I let my horse get away with a lot of stuff that I probably shouldn't but leave me alone...you don't know us.) I never expirenced this here though. Everyone is civil and tries to help..except the trolls.

    <span style="font-family:Book Antiqua">since 2008</span></span>

  3. #3
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    That is Gary&#39;s decision. Personally, I don&#39;t agree with it, but if that is what he feels he needs to do, fine.

    The way I understand it, the reason he left is because he appealed to the forum administrators to delete members and posts that he did not agree with, and they would not. I agree with this decision. We have freedom of speech in this country, and as ridiculous as the posts in question are, those people are entitled to their opinion too.

    Remember, you can&#39;t always control the things that happen to you, but you can control the way you react to those things.
    OREDOCK BREWING COMPANY SKI BUMS
    http://ore-dock.com/

  4. #4
    Member Clarkl23's Avatar
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    I am truly sorry that we lost BM. I valued his contributions and I will gain nothing from the trash that is left in
    his wake.[/b]
    Ron,

    I&#39;ve been lurking on this forum ever since I got into the Wednesday night race league at Wachusett this season. It&#39;s been great fun and we really do have all ability levels. I&#39;ve enjoyed reading all of Gary&#39;s posts, whether I always agreed with them or not (or, more likely, thought I might not have the ability to follow them).

    I think you&#39;ve hit the nail on the head... all that&#39;s left behind by the trolls is the trash, which is all any trolls leave behind. You simply have to resist the temptation to respond, because that&#39;s all they live for, they live off other people&#39;s energy and passion. In other parts of the food chain these are known as parasites. Here they suck your energy rather than your blood and usually if ignored they go away. We can only hope that after a break Gary returns and the trolls will have starved for lack of attention and blown away. Whatever legitimate point their discussion might have served has been long forgotten. Please folks, just say no, and hopefully they&#39;ll go away. My experience is that banning them from a board doesn&#39;t work, they just come on with one or more identities, which can be funny because then they can talk to themselves, but usually they then run out of things to say.

    Clark
    Past President & Trip Chair, Eastern Inter-Club Ski League, www.eicsl.org, A bad day skiing is better than any day working

  5. #5
    Senior Member jclose8's Avatar
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    Wow. Nice. 3 blank responses....

    OREDOCK BREWING COMPANY SKI BUMS
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  6. #6
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    Ron,

    I&#39;ve been lurking on this forum ever since I got into the Wednesday night race league at Wachusett this season. It&#39;s been great fun and we really do have all ability levels. I&#39;ve enjoyed reading all of Gary&#39;s posts, whether I always agreed with them or not (or, more likely, thought I might not have the ability to follow them).

    I think you&#39;ve hit the nail on the head... all that&#39;s left behind by the trolls is the trash, which is all any trolls leave behind. You simply have to resist the temptation to respond, because that&#39;s all they live for, they live off other people&#39;s energy and passion. In other parts of the food chain these are known as parasites. Here they suck your energy rather than your blood and usually if ignored they go away. We can only hope that after a break Gary returns and the trolls will have starved for lack of attention and blown away. Whatever legitimate point their discussion might have served has been long forgotten. Please folks, just say no, and hopefully they&#39;ll go away. My experience is that banning them from a board doesn&#39;t work, they just come on with one or more identities, which can be funny because then they can talk to themselves, but usually they then run out of things to say.

    Clark[/b]
    Good points, sometimes things are better left alone. My apology to all forum members for stooping to the same level.

  7. #7

    Thumbs down

    That is Gary&#39;s decision. Personally, I don&#39;t agree with it, but if that is what he feels he needs to do, fine.

    The way I understand it, the reason he left is because he appealed to the forum administrators to delete members and posts that he did not agree with, and they would not. I agree with this decision. We have freedom of speech in this country, and as ridiculous as the posts in question are, those people are entitled to their opinion too.

    Remember, you can&#39;t always control the things that happen to you, but you can control the way you react to those things.[/b]
    First, thanks for all your comments about Gary he appreciates them. However, I just want to set the record straight, so this doesn&#39;t become a free speech/banning people thread. Gary is not leaving this forum because he "appealed to the forum administrators to delete members and posts that he did not agree with, and they would not". He is leaving because the administrators are not holding members to the code of conduct that we agreed to when we signed up for the forum. Without rules of behavior, a society (any society) de-evolves into anarchy. Rather than being a place where we can all freely and clearly discuss (and that includes dissenting opinions) tips, techniques, experiences, etc., it becomes a place where valuable discussions are buried under rubble and insults.

    Gary has put a lot of work and thought into how to help recreational racers get better, and through thoughtful discussion and dissention with other members of this forum, this information has been made available to a large number of racers. But when this information gets buried under all of this other stuff. And while yes, eventually these fires burn out, they bury the useful information (and useful discussions buried within threads that &#39;trolled&#39;). Frankly, Gary doesn&#39;t want his effort to be buried because the administrators seem afraid to uphold the rules of conduct that we all agreed to.

    Ban people (they&#39;ve done it in the past), or not (as seems to be the policy now), administrators, please uphold the rules that make this a &#39;safe haven&#39; for discussion. Differing opinions are almost always productive, but personal attacks never are.

    He&#39;s going to focus his energies where information can be provided and discussed without the added distractions.

    Hopefully this clarifies things, and doesn&#39;t let this thread to de-evolve into a discussion about free speech.

    *BTW, the &#39;ignore&#39; feature on &#39;My controls&#39; is a great thing! :wink:
    Melior victus per venenum.

  8. #8
    Good points, sometimes things are better left alone. My apology to all forum members for stooping to the same level.[/b]
    No Ron, with all due respect (and I mean that sincerely) I don&#39;t think they are good points. Yes, trolls do burn themselves out, but before they do they effectively surpress the free speech of others by attacking people to the point that they don&#39;t feel like responding and by burying meaningful posts under layers and layers of posts that say nothing constructive (or otherwise!). People seem to be worried aout the free speech of the troll(s), but what about the free speech of the rest of us? Aren&#39;t we allowed to post without being immediately buried by copies and copies and copies of the same post? So please, don&#39;t apologize - I honestly don&#39;t understand what level you are &#39;stooping&#39; to. I think your post was very on-point, and well, a great example of free speech.

    And that is my final word on all of this.
    Melior victus per venenum.

  9. #9
    Senior Member BitterSweetRacer's Avatar
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    Is their anyway to get Gary back?
    Sometimes the Dragon wins, So Be the Dragon.
    HOR356
    Powered by Blizzard skis, Marker bindings and Head boots
    Fueled by Knights in Shiny Armor, Raisin Bran Crunch and Gatorade

  10. #10
    Administrator JTBear's Avatar
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    Talking

    It&#39;s unfortunate that this entire situation progressed to the point that it has. That being said, everyone has choices and this Forum is intended to allow open dialog between parties. And agreed, attacks by anyone should not be tolerated. But each person must look at their own side of the street to be completely objective. That is my open request of any and all members when conducting yourselves on this public Ski Racing Forum.

    Honestly, we&#39;re only talking about sliding down hills on sticks! Right??!! :mrgreen:

    No one has dominion or ownership rights moreso than others as Forum members/participants. We all know that some topics and manners of response strike a nerve with folks and over time, issues resolve themselves. As Moderator, I observed the transactional dialog and determined that we&#39;d all had enough of the specific thread in question and it was time to move on.

    Anything more than that is simply personal choice on how anyone would best resolve a challenging situation. I do not have the desire to grind on said issues and for those who know me, I ain&#39;t getting into the "pie fights". I am basically the lifeguard and try to keep the pool in somewhat working order.

    My best to all,

    JTBear
    Forum Moderator
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    Carve Diem!! Charge The Course!!

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