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Thread: Pace the hill not the pacesetter?

  1. #31
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    I like the 3-year running average idea. I also like the idea of having trials mid-Winter. The only flaw I see here is, what if a resort's pacesetter leaves over the summer and they get a new pacesetter - what handicap does he/she use for the first half of the winter?

    Quote Originally Posted by Da Kine View Post
    Let's suppose a pacesetter shows up at hill X and sets two courses, one straight and one very turney.

    First he tucks the hill and gets a cap time of 18 seconds.
    Then he runs the straight course and gets a 19.5 second run.
    Then he runs the turney course and gets a 22 second time.

    The par time is computed by multiplying the cap by 1.05 to get 18.9 seconds (assuming NASTAR has said that a 5% par cap ratio is right for this venue.)

    The pacesetter than has a 3.1 handicap for the straight course (19.5/18.9-1)*100
    And a 16.4 handicap for the turney course (22/18.9-1)*100

    The race is then run using the different pacesetter handicaps for the two courses.
    Help me understand this a little better, please. Say all that you wrote happens, and then I show up. I finish the straight course in 23.63s, for a handicap of 25. Then I run the turney course (par 23.1), and I finish in 31.19s, for a handicap of 35. Those are probably pretty realistic numbers for me.
    Is the result simply that I get some mental reinforcement of the fact that I need to work on my tight turns? Or am I missing a next step that gives me a consistent number from race to race?

  2. #32
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    I saw a pig fly while reading this thread.......

  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by cinciracer View Post
    I saw a pig fly while reading this thread.......
    Was this what you saw?
    If you win, but in so doing, lose the respect of your competitors, you've not won anything at all - Paul Elvestrom - 4 time Danish Olympic gold medalist in Sailing

  4. #34
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    There was only one, but those must be his friends.......

  5. #35
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    Reviving this discussion after several days of silly handicaps at Steamboat. First, none of our regular pace setters were able to make it to trials so NASTAR is sending someone here Wednesday. In the mean time they are using silly handicaps. Yesterday had a par time of 14.24 on one course, 14.5 on the other. Pacesetter had 22 hcp which was from nationals run on SeeMee, the steepest and most difficult hill at Nationals. The par time on Bashor at Nationals was right around 17 seconds for AJ, Casey and crew. Former NASTAR crew at the hill said straight line (no gates) time is about 16 seconds. There should be more than one Platinum out of 30 racers generally speaking shouldn't there? There should be some minimum par time for each hill based on a straight line run by someone with a great start.
    LB
    WAL18

  6. #36
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    The issue is very complex. It is not like a race track like Lime Rock where a Formula F1600 will do approximately the same time and not reset the lap record every year. It takes a great driver and the right environmental conditions do do such.
    In ski racing the conditions really set the speed, then the set of the course finalizes it. Using a daily pace setter is the closest you can get to some parity.
    My issue comes out with a slow pacesetter or one that is having a off day. I went to Pats Peak in NH several masters race there and one former WC er, now I am a fair racer not a Platinum but 90% of my runs were Platinum there.
    It was a hero snow day with a pace setter I think was off the mark. But I had expected a tougher course but it seems the more difficult one are places like Sundown in CT where if I pulled a platinum I would suspect the system was broken.

  7. #37
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    Every hill has a minimum time. The course needs to be run on an icy fast day without gates using a pacesetter with a strong start and good race tuck. Any par time below the fast straight line time means pacesetter's handicap is too high. I've skied the hill in question thousands of times over the past 20 years. If previous single digit handicap pacesetters straightlined it in the 16 second range give or take a couple tenths a par time of 14.25 is out of the realm of possible. Simple physics. Slowest time may be close to infinity but there is a limit to how fast a given hill can be skied.
    LB
    WAL18

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